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:019:estan celosos. jaja no importa lo que estan deciendo sobre mi pronunciación...la gente puede entenderme No soy una miestra de ingles ni español pero puedo communicar bien en los dos idiomas gracias y buenas noches rancheros.

Están

no me importa lo que digan ustedes

No soy maestra

me puedo comunicar

I'm not a teacher either, but these suggestions "sound" better to me.

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Guest irolbackwards

willieboy, I learned Spanish from the college students and they spell horrible. One night, my friend texed me to pick him up in caza. I though he was at the street corner. When I arrived at the street corner, he was no where to be found. I called and asked where he was? He was in casa. Enjoy your learning endeavors. I don't speak or write perfectly, but I do have heart and expression. Having your grammar 'perfect' is great, but being warm in nature will go a lot further and is well understood in this culture.

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Pronunciation Pet Peeves:

Oh, how silly we must sound to Mexicans when we butcher Spanish!

Yes, they're very tolerant and supportive when we gaff and blunder our way through...and they perhaps understand what we try to say... and, perhaps, we can try a little harder though?

My suggestions:

(1) Rather than relying on some silly mnemonic device (like saying "yellow" for "hielo") find out how the word is correctly spelled in Spanish and actually listen to how a native speaker pronounces it.

(2) Learn to correctly pronounce the Spanish vowel sounds. Unlike vowel sounds in English, they are always pronounced the same way, and once mastered with a little effort, will make pronunciation much more accurate.

I realize this is overly simplistic but it has helped me a lot.

¡Híjole!

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"perhaps we can try a little harder"...

Agreed.

It is surprising to find how many gringos could care less about learning Spanish. Many are here for the cost of living and climate. I met an American about 60 yrs old last week who needed translation help at a store in Ajijic and although he has lived here 10 yrs and he is married to a young Mexican woman and he has a child with her----- he was unable to understand a simple invoice. His excuse was that he was too old. Gee, give me a break....

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Guest irolbackwards
No te preocupes con lo que otros piensan.

tqm mi willie :)

I think it's quite humorous how serious some of these posers, I mean posters are. They act like they're a walking dictionary or grammar book. Talk about critics. Think about how many Spanish speakers you've spoken to that try and speak English yet imperfectly. Do you find it insulting? Are you impatient and belittling towards them? Or do you expect them to get English down perfectly while learning? "pffft" I don't always speak English well and I'm an US citizen. The percentage of Spanish speakers that speak perfect Spanish probably isn't as high as you think since the uneducated are the majority here. Leaning a language is a process and I'll always be learning it, even if I am considered 'fluent'. I never tell anyone I'm fluent. To me, that's impossible.

Those who are lazy will always be lazy. Then there are those that don't have an adaptability.

Nothing like a tone deaf person asking me to teach them how to sing. Yikes! Or how about the wanna be singer that agonizes an audience with their attempt to sing. I don't think it's fair to even compare myself to another person's Spanish. There's always going to be someone better than me while I'll look pretty good compared to others who unable, which doesn't make feel so big.

Yes, hijole, yellow and monday are very good pronunciations whether you like it or not.

What our Mexican friends think is pretty funny, but they aren't rude about it, is when gringos say the food is muy bueno. Or how about a nervous American tourist that speaks louder to try and be understood? Body language can be quite offensive. Why else do you thing that English speakers are known for being frio?

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Guest pameladelafield
"perhaps we can try a little harder"...

Agreed.

It is surprising to find how many gringos could care less about learning Spanish. Many are here for the cost of living and climate. I met an American about 60 yrs old last week who needed translation help at a store in Ajijic and although he has lived here 10 yrs and he is married to a young Mexican woman and he has a child with her----- he was unable to understand a simple invoice. His excuse was that he was too old. Gee, give me a break....

You must be a lot younger than 60. I had 4 years of Spanish in school and traveled throughout Mexico and South America for years until about 20 years ago. I was never fluent in Spanish but could understand more than I could speak it. I also thought that older people were being lazy when they lived in the U.S. and couldn't learn English. This was before I turned 55 and had several back surgeries. As one woman here said, "The brain is a sponge until age 50 and after that it is a trampoline." Not much sticks after 50.

I live across the lake in a town where few speak English. I was hoping that would increase my Spanish. It hasn't. My short term memory is still shot. I can pick up a few words from patient Mexicans but not like I could have 30 years ago. I've come to realize that I might not ever reach even a good quality Spanglish.

There are many people who when they are young have trouble learning a second language and being over 50 makes it almost impossible. The best thing anyone can do for a child is expose him to other languages so that even when he is older, he can learn another language more easily.

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I'm closer to 60 than 50; but I just don't roll over and give up no matter how bad my Spanish is and how slow the progress is. Sure its harder at an older age, No argument from me about that. Poco a poco. I just think a lot of people use the old age argument as nothing more than a excuse.

Ultimately the question for each is: What do I have to lose by being persistent and trying every day? What do I have to gain by continuing this effort? A no brainer for me despite my old age.

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I never had any Spanish in school and never lived or traveled in Latin America until I retired to Mexico at age 64. So, for the last several years I have been learning to read, speak and write Spanish. No, I'm not fluent but I can pick up a telephone and use it in Spanish and I can converse reasonably well if the native speaker doesn't speak too rapidly or use too much slang or idiomatic speech. Yes, it is easier to converse with an educated person from Guadalajara than with the typical Lakeside person, but heck, I have trouble understanding folks in Oklahoma too. Using age as an excuse is just that; an excuse. Maybe we should only be allowed one FM3 unless we can at least read and understand at the kindergarten level.

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:019: estan celosos. jaja no importa lo que estan deciendo sobre mi pronunciación...la gente puede entenderme No soy una miestra de ingles ni español pero puedo communicar bien en los dos idiomas gracias y buenas noches rancheros.

Puedo ver la razón de esta batalla. Por favor 'irolbackwards' intente tomar una buena crítica cuando se presenta educadamente. Eso evitará una confrontación.

In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the original criticism of Willieboy, but because you took it the wrong way, things started to deteriorate. I wanted to participate to the post, but the way it is going, I don't find it interesting any longer. I thought that at least, here, we could be civilized.

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Guest irolbackwards
Puedo ver la razón de esta batalla. Por favor 'irolbackwards' intente tomar una buena crítica cuando se presenta educadamente. Eso evitará una confrontación.

In my opinion, there was nothing wrong with the original criticism of Willieboy, but because you took it the wrong way, things started to deteriorate. I wanted to participate to the post, but the way it is going, I don't find it interesting any longer. I thought that at least, here, we could be civilized.

I'm sorry I spoiled it for you seewee, but what willieboy and bournemouth wrote was rude. They don't know me personally, nor have they ever heard me speak in Spanish. I was only contributing some local expressions when the old guys tried to knock it and find something wrong with it. That is jealousy. If you don't appreciate my posts than block them so your fun won't be ruined.

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I'm sorry I spoiled it for you seewee, but what willieboy and bournemouth wrote was rude. They don't know me personally, nor have they ever heard me speak in Spanish. I was only contributing some local expressions when the old guys tried to knock it and find something wrong with it. That is jealousy. If you don't appreciate my posts than block them so your fun won't be ruined.

Lori - as on Oct. 27th,2007 you posted the following:

___________________________________________

Tenista, You live in Mexico!!!!

I'm bi-lingual and I learned an hour from here in Guadalajara. Complete immersion, no gringos!

My husband, a quick learner, graduated from Harvest Language School after attending one semester. The intense program is now available in Chapala.

Gary completed Spanish 3 in a community college before moving to Mexico. I only passed Spanish 2 before attending the school. He was placed in advanced level 4, a created class for him, while I was placed in level 1 at Harvest.

I'm not a book learner, the intense program stresses me out! In fact, I was with the directors of Harvest last night. I have a conversational Spanish class that meets once a week for a 10 peso tip with a national teacher. Fun class! We are learning how to speak in Spanish, not just the phonetics but practice speaking in a stress free environment.

At Harvest, you will learn and be tested on the gramatics of Spanish. After graduation, you'll still need to practice your pronunciation. Some Harvest students in Chapala plan to come to my class after they finish with Harvest to practice speaking.

_____________________________________________

saying I remember you posting that you are bi-lingual is not rude but simple fact.

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I'm sorry I spoiled it for you seewee, but what willieboy and bournemouth wrote was rude. They don't know me personally, nor have they ever heard me speak in Spanish. I was only contributing some local expressions when the old guys tried to knock it and find something wrong with it. That is jealousy. If you don't appreciate my posts than block them so your fun won't be ruined.

I am not bored with your post and I should not let confrontations ruin it for me. I just wished that you could take criticism when presented positively. From what I could see, their first intervention was not rude. It became that way when you defended yourself. Don’t fall into that trap of being a victim because they correct you. I realize that some people are very competitive and when you said that you were bilingual, it appears that they expected 'perfection’. We cannot even pretend to be perfect in our own language.

I have absolutely no problems with mistakes and I would not hold it against any one because this post is to learn. Right? But I often have the need to correct some one if there are wrong. It’s human nature. You should take the criticism to improve yourself. If it is done with positivity, thank them. If they are nasty, you either ignore them or attack, but you don’t be on the defensive because they correct you.

I wish you would continue to bring your contribution to the post. Even though I consider myself at ease in Spanish, I am far from being satisfied with myself. I wish to improve and every little bit helps.

If you can speak and write fairly well to be understood it is okay (with me anyway). I know how difficult it is to learn a language; I have been learning a different language all my life.

A lot is in the attitude. I felt like answering you because you were not aggressive with me and I wanted to let you know that I was not against you, just against your reaction, which was the reaction of a victim.

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Guest irolbackwards

bournemouth, your past post is really creepy. TMI It's nice to see that I've matured since posting that to Tenists on October 27, 2007. You really went out of your way.

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bournemouth, your past post is really creepy. TMI It's nice to see that I've matured since posting that to Tenists on October 27, 2007. You really went out of your way.

The search mechanism here sometimes works and this was one of them. Anything we post is out there in cyberspace, waiting to be read by someone years down the road.

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Guest irolbackwards

bournemouth, are you missing Steve's board?

@seewee, I wouldn't say that I write or speak all that well, but I can communicate. It's one thing if someone is offering information, which is what I was doing and another thing all together if someone is asking to be corrected. So the defenses naturally went up when I wasn't asking to be taught, I was offering a local expression. You did interpret correctly that I was offended, but I get over things rather quickly. Water under the bridge.

@ bm, interesting how the Spanish class didn't go the way I had envisioned. After Damaris moved back to Colombia, Lulu took the class and it grew. The students enjoyed her mannerism of teaching even better. Now we don't offer a class. Initially, I wanted a conversational class for those of us with background a place to meet and speak Spanish to one another. Now, that thought doesn't even sound appealing. I'd rather just meet and talk and not worry about how my accent compares to yours. lol Writing is a whole other ballpark. I know students who aced Spanish school, but can't communicate in Spanish. I was a Spanish class drop out, but as I've mentioned before, can fool a Mexican....for a short period of time :)

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bournemouth, are you missing Steve's board?

Not missing it at all - you are providing my entertainment right here and I thank you.

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...the old guys tried to knock it...

"Old guys"?

Es totalmente aparente que apenitas hablas el idioma y que menos sabes de la educación en su sentido más común. Qué grosería, decir "old guys".

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Guest irolbackwards

@liana, you are a fiesty one. I shouldn't have deleted my post when I asked you to take me shopping sometime! Yes, old guys, that includes you! Or maybe less respectedly said, "old xarts."

@bm, lol, ya, I'm an easy target. Glad to provide some entertainment to your old life.

Now how can we say old guys in Spanish and get this thread back on target?

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Que onda con tu avatar? Te ves delgada en la foto pero en realidad estas muy gorda.

Who do you think you're fooling now?

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Guest irolbackwards
Que onda con tu avatar? Te ves delgada en la foto pero en realidad estas muy gorda.

Who do you think you're fooling now?

LOLO! LOL Are you loopy this morning? MY WHAT GOOD EYES YOU HAVE! Hon, I always look really fat next to puney people. How do you say that in Spanish? Teach me, I want to learn now.

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Que onda con tu avatar? Te ves delgada en la foto pero en realidad estas muy gorda.

Who do you think you're fooling now?

Lolo no tiene pelos en la lengua.

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I did a little experiment the other day.

Went over to the neighbors (Gee, guess what? They just happen to be Mexican...) and said, "Cuando tomes un refresco, te gusta hielo?" (I intentionally pronounced "hielo" as if I were saying "yellow" in English) All I got was a blank stare...then, "¿Mande?", and you know what? It didn't sound much like "Monday" in English to me.

Maybe I need to have my "hearing in Spanish" checked:)

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Guest irolbackwards

frijole, I'm sorry you're not understandable yet, but keep trying. You deserve an E for effort!

Offer this next time, "Si tomaras un refresco, tomaras con yellow o al tiempo? Say yellow with a Mexican accent. Make your y whispery almost a soft j.

So did you all start laughing? Did they correct you or did you all walk away? Do these Mexican friends also speak English? Did you explain that you thought some $%&/() told you to say yello for ice?

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