We've contracted to purchase a house here. We will keep our AZ house and expect to drive to Ajijic a few times a year, staying 2-4 months during each visit (more likely 2 visits per year, 3 possibly). The house we've bought is fully furnished. While we may bring some personal items with us when we drive down, there won't be any electronics or expensive stuff.

Since the cost of an FM-3 is about $200 per person annually vs. $22 per person per visit for an FMT, is there a reason for us to get FM-3's since we won't utilize the benefits of a manaje de casa?

The only 'problem' we could have with an FMT is if we need to depart quickly via air and leave our car behind...though I've been told that if we see the local police dept. we can get a letter about leaving the car here due to an emergency.

I'd like to hear from others who own houses both in MX and in the US or Canada on whether you have FM3's or just get FMT's when you cross by car and what you'd recommend for our situation.

Thanks.

My suggestion is for one person to get the FM-3 and the other to stay on the fence and do the FM-T until such time as he/she is here over the 180 days allowed on the FM-T. That is what we chose, and it has worked well for us: I received the FM-3 to bring a car down registered in my name ONLY. I did not use the menaje de casa, so "wasted" that opportunity/benefit. My spouse plans to stay on an FM-T until such time as we need to do the menaje and/or bring down a second vehicle in that name only. (A vehicle import in both names restricts you to the one vehicle, so it's safest to separate out the two, just in case.) If you do the FM-3, watch your application date: my renewal is right after Christmas and it is a PITA, although we make do: however, if we are traveling and because the government offices are closed for two or more weeks, it is more inconvenient and costly to get the official Letter so you can transit while your FM-3 is in renewal limbo and out of your physical possession. So, my advice, if you choose to do the FM-3, is to plan everything to coincide with an annual time you will be around to simplify your renewal process, whatever time of year that is.

I believe the FM-T is good for a maximum of 180 days per year; you might be over that amount if you stay 2-4 months several times a year. I think it's hard to get caught at the moment, but the computers are getting better and faster at catching things and you may run the risk of an FM-T overstay,although I 'd guess it is really low.

The FM-T and FM-3 papers don't have any markings on them to indicate you have a car in Mexico, or where it is garaged. Likely, you'd lock and garage your car at home and take a cab to the airport if you had a sudden emergency and had to temporarily leave your vehicle here, even if illegally. Don't know about any letter from the police, since they don't handle car imports but I can tell you any paperwork moves slowly and would be more difficult and costly during a time of emergency than planning the FM-3 would be.

In the event you wish to sell you will need Fm2/3 to avoid capital gains

Definitely a FM-3 to sell ... or rent

There is no problem having numerous FM-T's in a year. I have a friend who lives in Mexico and comes and goes at least twice a month throughout much of year on a FM-T. Also you can bring in cars easily without removing one by simply changing the information on the form for the vehicle that you completed in a very minor way ... example Joe Smith and then Joe R Smith.

I also know others on FM-3's who go to Texas and NM as often as twice a month and never remove the car sticker. Yes they are aware of the odds and implications of the car being in a accident and not returned but go back to my example above... change one letter in car import application or simply get import sticker on line delivered to your address NOB.

According to the information obtained from various websites, the FMT is good for 180 days each time you receive it - NOT per year.

On a related issue, I just left Mexico by car last week via Nogales and discovered belatedly that at no one at the border took my FMT form. (I did, however, turn in my car sticker and kept the receipt) I called the Mexican consulate in Nogales and they assured me that this was no problem (?) and that I could turn it in and apply for a new one when I drove down in December. (The current FMT expires in late November.) Does this sound accurate?

Also, when flying into Mexico I do not recall ever paying the $22 for an FMT, perhaps because it is included in the airfare. But this time, neither I nor my wife recall paying a fee for the visa, although we did recall paying for the import of the car. Did we get a freebie or our we likely just having a "senior moment?"

My husband and I brought a car and a truck into Mexico, both of which are in both our names. There was no problem.

Stay on FMT, you are in the right way. Don´t worry about your car Once you renew your FMT your car is OK.

According to aduana, one car per person: Los turistas y visitantes locales podrán importar vehículos, aún y cuando el
documento que acredite la propiedad se encuentre a nombre de su cónyuge,
ascendientes y descendientes, siempre y cuando sean extranjeros o residentes
permanentes en el extranjero, se trate de un solo vehículo y acrediten su
parentesco conforme a lo señalado en el punto 8.2.1. del presente manual.

You absolutely can have multiple FM-Ts per year; however, the maximum time is 180 calendar days per year. The problem comes up when they automatically do a 90- or 180-day FM-T and the computer adds up all those days, not the days you actually were in Mexico. I've had it happen; for a while, I traveled monthly on an FM-T and got caught. Lucky me!

Several months ago the sticker process changed; I posted the details a few weeks ago; you can either do a multiple exit or a permanent "out" of Mexico now. For both, however, you still have to stop and the agent will ask/or you inform which of the options you are choosing. It's supposed to speed up the process and eliminate having to remove stickers if you are returning.

Again, all I'm sharing is law and is from the www.aduanas.gob.mx website. What people choose to do or how they may circumvent the law, or how they didn't get caught is a different issue.

Your car isn´t tied to an FMT and the car permit is good for 6 months (during those 6 months you can have many FMTs due to multiple entries) and at the end of every 6 months you´ll have to turn in the old sticker and get a new one. With an FM3 your sticker is good as long as your FM3 is valid.

I don't think they count the days or even if you turned in your old FMT. Well at least years ago as I used to have a stack of them at home before I got my FM3.

Timing issues for the FM-3:

Since we leave here in under 2 weeks, we don't have time to get one now (nor do I have all the paperwork with us).

We live 20 minutes from the Douglas, AZ Mexican Consulate so it's convenient for us to get an FM-3 there.

If we get the FM-3 in the US, are we under a deadline to register it here in MX; i.e., do we have to register the FM-3 here in MX within xxxx many days after it is issued in the US?

Is the renewal date for the FM-3 one year from the date it was issued in the US, or one year from the date it was registered in MX? What are the grace periods for renewal, if any....I've read it must be renewed at least 30 days before its expiration...true?

Bisbee Gal I encourage you to obtain your FM-3 after you arrive and keep your stress level low. Enjoy the journey of your adventure and in Mexico it is amazing how everything works out in its' own sweet time. Search "FM-3" or "FM3" and all the rest is answered. You really only need it when selling your property to avoid capital gains although it may have to be in effect a few months prior to selling but you have months and years to resolve that.

Also, should you want IMSS you do need a FM-3.

Should you choose to get your FM3 in the USA, you must register it, with proof of your Mexican address, when you arrive in Mexico at your intended destination. I think that must be done within 30 days of crossing the border.
However, it is usually easier to get an FM3 in Chapala and you can then decide, within the limits of your FMT, when it would be most convenient for the FM3 to be renewed each year. You must be in Mexico to renew it.

Since the cost of an FM-3 is about $200 per person annually vs. $22 per person per visit for an FMT, is there a reason for us to get FM-3's since we won't utilize the benefits of a manaje de casa?

I don´t see you are intending to sell here in Mexico, and probably you will coming 2 or 3 times a year. 2 FMT are enough for one year. About your car permit, you have two choices: a) No mention nothing about it Renew it´s permit once is expired.

You wouldn´t have problems using your car in Mexico and Showing up and FMT permit, most of the transito Police don´t know differences between immigration forms. If caught, they are going to warn you to renew it, I see it very remote the chance for your car to be towed away.

Reading the two messages immediately above provides an interesting example of "cultural differences" between Mexico and NOB. The NOB'er is very exact about what the law is and what must be done to comply.

The Mexican attitude is who cares? don't bother obeying the law because nobody enforces it anyway.

It’s reminds me of buying insurance, who knows when you’ll need it?

If you know how to read, I posted: "I don´t see you are intending to sell here in Mexico, and probably you will coming 2 or 3 times a year. 2 FMT are enough for one year. About your car permit, you have two choices: a) No mention nothing about it or Renew it´s permit once is expired.

With an FMT you are covered so is your car. If you left your car behind going out of the country by plane and if the FMT is expired before coming back to mexico, you won´t have problems renewing and FMT, then if having the chance get your car, take it to the borderline, explain the situation, given the ticket back and your credit card is safe.

Also you said: The Mexican attitude is who cares? don't bother obeying the law because nobody enforces it anyway.
That guy is very clear, he is coming on FMT traying to save money. He is not against the law. What is he doing is according to the law. If he is coming 2 to 3 times to Mexico, car permit is ok.

Talking about transito, on regular basis is the one that bothers, they can´t do nothing against you, only Aduana has the power to enforce a law against your vehicle, but they are going to warn you of that.

EN RESUMEN: My opinion is: stay on FMT, and renew it, also your car permit.
Who in this webboard haven´t pass for a situation when vehicle permit is expired and then renewed few months after?

This may be a foolish question but, when we drive down and buy and have an FM3, is there a conflict of leaving the car at home and flying back NOB for a short visit, or medical treatment?

Ray no problem at all. You can obtain FM-3 NOB or here. If NOB you have to register in Mexico anyways but either way works. Medical care is excellent here. Come on down and enjoy

If you are talking about leaving the car here while you go for a visit north of the border, it is not a problem. When I fly out I leave my car at the airport for short visits and cab it in for longer visits.

F

Thanks!

There seems to be some confusion:
The FMT is a single entry permit. You may not leave a car behind in Mexico if you have an FMT because the FMT becomes invalid the moment you leave Mexico, meaning that a car left behind would be in Mexico illegally.
With an FM3, you may come and go at will, with or without the car. Just have the FM3 stamped in/out by INM at the border.
If you do leave Mexico with your car, get the sticker removed; or ask about the new 'temporary exit' procedure.
Never allow a Mexican to drive your NoB car unless you are in the vehicle. That violates the importation conditions.

Where is the confusion based on the question pertaining to a FM-3?

There is not a confusion the FMT is no a single entry permit. Check that on PROPOSITOS DE TURISTA on the webpage of the Consulado in NEW MEXICO. http://www.nmborder.com/travel_mexico.html#link2


Let me paste it for you:

Tourist Purposes
If you are traveling to Mexico as a tourist, you must obtain an FMT tourist permit. The FMT allows you to visit or make multiple trips to Mexico for a maximum period of 180 days. The Mexican Immigration official issuing the FMT has sole discretion in determining your length of stay and may ask you the expected duration of your trip. As a tourist, you are not authorized to conduct any type of business activity in Mexico.

The FMT is a single entry permit if you exit by air as they collect it! If you are traveling by car or land then you may use it for multiple entries.

Intercasa:

Let´s try to make this very clear. The Regulation de la Ley General de Población in none of it´s parts says what you posted about "The FMT is a single entry permit if you exit by air as they collect it!". You must tell the Immigration authorities about that you are intending to come back to mexico and need the remaining time for your FMT. Let me paste That Regulation:
(bold letter is the translation)

Artículo 160.- TURISTAS.- La internación de turistas quedará sujeta a las siguientes disposiciones:
TOURIST.- The internment of tourists is subject to the following provisions:


I. La autorización para permanecer en el país se concederá hasta por seis meses a partir de su expedición y no será susceptible de prórroga. Sólo por enfermedad que impida viajar, o por otra causa de fuerza mayor debidamente comprobada, se podrá conceder un plazo adicional para la salida del extranjero o extranjera.
I. Permission to stay in the country will be granted up to six months from its issuance and shall not be liable for an extension. Only a disease that prevents travel, or another force majeure duly confirmed, may be granted additional time for the departure of foreign.

En los casos de turistas que hayan sido documentados originalmente por una temporalidad menor a los seis meses, la Secretaría podrá, cuando lo estime conveniente, ampliar la temporalidad hasta completarlos, y
In cases of tourists who had originally been documented by a temporary less than six months, the Secretariat may, when appropriate, extend the temporary fill up, and

II. Cuando la Secretaría lo juzgue conveniente, podrá autorizar la prerrogativa de entradas y salidas múltiples al país en esta característica migratoria.

II. When the Secretariat deems it as appropriate, may authorize the prerogative of multiple entrances and exits to the country in this feature migration.

Ask and it will be given.... I hope this is clear once and for all.

While the law very well indeed may say that, the airlines do collect it. It (FMT fee) is usually included in the airline ticket price so the only time one would perhaps, want to cause a ruckus and not turn in the FMT upon exit by air would be if they planned to return within the 180 day period driving.

We have 2 things in play here, the letter of the law and then what gets done. The airlines are required to take the form (although at times they forget, especially when you have a connection before leaving Mexico) and must do so or risk getting in trouble.

Has anybody here not turned in their FMT form when leaving Mexico by air and made an affirmative stance not to turn it in for the reason that they will be returning within the remaining 180 days?

The only reason that somebody would challenge immigration and the airlines and not turn it in would be to save the fee for a new one at the border if re-entry by land and the time it takes to process it and pay.

I understand your position.I will ask the following:

Has anybody here asked for the posibility to do not return the FMT when going out of Mexico since there is the intention to come back?
I bet there is a Unique answer: NONE.

I'd agree that the answer would be none as getting a new FMT, while you'd spend a few pesos, would extend the time for the new FMT and would avoid having to argue Mexican immigration law with the airline and the clerk at the immigration desk.

Al regresar Jorge, te voy a invitar a tomar una chela, tenemos mucho que platicar.

Saludos y buenas noches. Que descanses!

This Mexican Law site is completely in English

http://www.legalservicesinmexico.com/common_questions

Aduana Site In English

http://www.aduanas.sat.gob.mx/aduana_mexico/2008/index.html

The Mexican Government has an English site that may be of value for information about entering Mexico.

http://www.inami.gob.mx/EN/index.php?page/...t_to_prolong_my

and also this site:

http://portal.sre.gob.mx/suecia/index.php?...ge&SubMenu=

Jeannie

We have them all together in a single web site, is updated and very easy to handle. We had done great changes based on the debates of Chapala webboard. Try it: http://www.lakeside-chapala.com

I accept corrections, Suggestions, I want that site to be a helpful hand on different subjets.
We are working to add healthcare services (pros and cons), Recommended medical sites, what is more convenient, etc.

Feel free to express yourself, annoyances are welcome!

This is not propaganda, this is another helpful link!

Jorge,
Those of us who refer to the FMT as a single entry document are speaking from experience of crossing the border frequently. Perhaps the law reads differently, but the reality is that the FMT is collected when you leave by air. Everyone seems convinced that an automobile, registered outside of Mexico and carrying an 'Importada Temporal' may not remain in Mexico unless you have an FM3 or an FM2 as valid visas. Admittedly, many have made a quick trip north on the same FMT and returned in a very short time; with or without a car. As you have indicated, enforcement is lax and individual agents at the border may have differing interpretations, with which it is best not to argue.

I read something about it, and it is becoming a good income for Airlines companies.

Has anyone gone to Immigration at the airport as you do with an FM3 and presented the situation. Maybe they have a routine to deal with it - like a couple slips of paper.

Personally I don't think it would work but who's tried

I tried it a couple of years ago, when I had come in on a 90 day FMT. Agent at the airport wouldn't do it.

I had to do the 3 step dance at the Palace in Chapala

-week 1 pick up forms
-week 2 drop off forms (and fee)
-week 3 pick-up FMT extension.

Since then, when I fill out the Immigration form upon entry, I put in 180 days in the box, rather than let the agent put in 90 and they have stamped it without comment.

FMT is not good income for the airlines as they must remit the tax. The good income from them is the FMT fees included in the ticket prices where Mexican nationals and FM2 and FM3 holders don't have to pay it and they won't refund us and stonewall us so they can steal millions of dollars per year from Mexicans!

Correcto Spencer, that is what I tryed to say. They also make some comisions for handling tourist FMT VISA.

on the fm3 how long does it take to get the paper work startd so you can get your furniture acrost the border with out paying tax. I now you have 6 months to get this done and you only get a 1 time pass.

Our Consulate did it in less than one day. Some movers will take care of all the paperwork for you.