Red Cross No Service No Meds

[phil in mexico]

Last night my wife got stung by a scorpion about 11: pm she has been ill with nerve condition so we rushed the Cruz Rojo in Chapala and they had no meds and gave us directions to another place near the cemetary in Chapala which we could not find we finally came on home and with a little ice and little time for relaxing everything turn out OK. I share this as a warning I wasn't impressed at all and will try to keep more first aide items in house

Just my 2 centovos

[GeorgiaPeach]

On Thursday my Dr. sent us over to Cruz Roja to get a back and hip x-ray and were told to come back later in the day, and when we did we were told they did not have the larger films to take the x-ray. They sent us to Undima (sp) in Chapala, waited 30 minutes for them to open up after lunch, then had to have the x-ray's done three times, and now my Dr. says the x-rays are not of good quality. Not a good day.

[bwhite1948]

There is excellent health care in Guadalajara. The care you receive locally in Chapala/Ajijic will be mostly adequate for minor health issues. However, for anything complicated, trips to Guadalajara are necessary. Not everyone likes the drive to Guadalajara and the time constraints of it. Those who are contemplating a move to Lakeside ought to take this into consideration.

[sue]

This should serve as a warning that we all have to be even more generous with our donations to this great organization.

[lakeside7]

The clinic Ajijic and Maskaras are available and open 24/7 hours

[Bourbonman]

I would suggest that on your "shopping trips" to Guadalajara, use the trip as if it is a Medical Emergency.

Make plans for which Hospital, Doctor, Lab, etc, AND PRACTICE the PLAN !

And, have the phone numbers of Cruz Roja for Ambulance service, phone numbers of taxi drivers(that speak English) that are available 24 hrs. Keep Medical records((and Insurance papers) ready to take with you.

Many people arrive Lakeside, and make better plans to take care of their pets, than self & family!

[holdrja]

When my husband was stung by a scorpion we went to Cruz Roja. Dr. Sam told us they had the anti-venom shot but it was very expensive unless you had Seguro Popular in which case it was free. We said yes, we have Seguro Popular and we have a copy of our SP registration in the car. Then Dr. Sam said they would only give it if my husband was showing an allergic reaction, which he wasn't. They observed him for an hour and then sent him home.

Second scorpion sting -- in the middle of the night -- was very bad. One of those little brown scorpions, and it stung my husband's finger 2 or 3 times, the pain was very bad. We called our doctor (Dr. Juan Pablo Loza), who was out of town and sent us to the Ajijic Clinic, who didn't have the anti-venom shot. Doctor recommended a 24 hour clinic in Chapala but we couldn't find it. The next morning Dr. Loza returned early from his trip to treat my husband, gave him the anti-venom shot (which had an 840 peso price tag on the box), and then sent him to that Chapala clinic for 5 bags of a saline+pain killer drip. The shot helped the pain a lot, the drip bags helped a little.

To find that 24 hour clinic in Chapala: go north up Madero to the bus station and turn right on to Miguel Martinez. The clinic is 2 or 3 blocks down, on the right hand side of the street, in a 2 story white building. Very small little door with the word "clinic" painted on or close to the door. Sorry can't remember better instructions.

[Alpha1]

Last night my wife got stung by a scorpion about 11: pm she has been ill with nerve condition so we rushed the Cruz Rojo in Chapala and they had no meds and gave us directions to another place near the cemetary in Chapala which we could not find we finally came on home and with a little ice and little time for relaxing everything turn out OK. I share this as a warning I wasn't impressed at all and will try to keep more first aide items in house

Just my 2 centovos

We keep

Benadryl in the refrigerator at all times. Good insurance against scorpion stings. Used it twice so far. It works.

[RVGRINGO]

On Thursday my Dr. sent us over to Cruz Roja to get a back and hip x-ray and were told to come back later in the day, and when we did we were told they did not have the larger films to take the x-ray. They sent us to Undima (sp) in Chapala, waited 30 minutes for them to open up after lunch, then had to have the x-ray's done three times, and now my Dr. says the x-rays are not of good quality. Not a good day.

I also have had to use Undima and found the radiographic quality extremely poor; useless, in fact. They have good equipment but seem, in my opinion, not to know how to extablish correct exposures and techniques.

There are good consultations available at lakeside by doctors who come from Guadalajara and a handful of local MDs. However, treatment is best done in Guadalajara if it is of any consequence or entails any risk at all. There just is no reliable back-up system at lakeside, while there is in Guadalajara.

[Kevin K]

FWIW my doctor told me that Maskaras has lowered their X-ray prices to where they are competitive with Cruz Roja's. I've heard their equipment is okay.

Have only used Undima for ultrasounds which were fine. Would go to Ajijic Clinic if necessary in an emergency to have a wound dressed or the like, but under no circumstances would I have a lab test or x-ray done there, based on personal experience and that of several friends.

I agree with other poster's comments about the need to go into Guad for anything more serious. The traffic in the area might make it seem like we're a suburb of Guad., but for comprehensive medical care, internet service and a few other things we're still, functionally, the boondocks.

[camillenparadise]

Ammonia is very good for any insect sting. I brought a big bottle from the states and have used it any number of times. I haven't seen it here, but haven't looked at SL.

[lakeside7]

Ammonia is very good for any insect sting. I brought a big bottle from the states and have used it any number of times. I haven't seen it here, but haven't looked at SL.

Look in the hardware stores, they have it

[MtnMama]

I have been told that they carry the scorpion anti-venom at Farmacia Guadalajara and they are open 24/7. The downside is that they don't always have a doctor on hand so you have to give your own shot or find someone to do it.

[ichbinsaege]

On Thursday my Dr. sent us over to Cruz Roja to get a back and hip x-ray and were told to come back later in the day, and when we did we were told they did not have the larger films to take the x-ray. They sent us to Undima (sp) in Chapala, waited 30 minutes for them to open up after lunch, then had to have the x-ray's done three times, and now my Dr. says the x-rays are not of good quality. Not a good day.

Cruz Roja doesn't use film. Their xray machines are digital. What they were probably out of is the "film" aka the transparencies they print the xray on with their laser printer. You *can* bring a flash drive in with you to have your xrays saved on there, then you can email them to your dr or have them for future use.

[lakeside7]

I have been told that they carry the scorpion anti-venom at Farmacia Guadalajara and they are open 24/7. The downside is that they don't always have a doctor on hand so you have to give your own shot or find someone to do it.

Take your shot across the road to Ajijic Clinic doctors there 24/7

[The world's best climate]

That is why we are astonished when foreigners are eager to be admitted in SP or IMSS, everybody knows, or should know, that those institutions are the poorest, they always lack of medications and services....even nacionals know that if they need urgent or important attention, they must go to a private and costly consultation. Never expect to get a decent or proper service in those almost inexpensive services like SP or IMSS.....

[Floradude]

A year ago when I needed an x-ray of the lower back the orthopedic surgeon asked me to get it done in Guadalajara. He said the equipement here was all old and the results were poor. I went into Puerto Hierro Sur and had the x-rays taken there (and then I went shopping at Costco).

[texmextwo]

Unless you have trouble breathing,what is the big deal? The sting is painful for a few hours and then goes away. These stings are not life threatning unless you have breathing issues.

[doberwoman]

That is why we are astonished when foreigners are eager to be admitted in SP or IMSS, everybody knows, or should know, that those institutions are the poorest, they always lack of medications and services....even nacionals know that if they need urgent or important attention, they must go to a private and costly consultation. Never expect to get a decent or proper service in those almost inexpensive services like SP or IMSS.....

And this situation is not only here in Jalisco, it happens in all the Country...! Those "institutions" were created just to pretend that the poor are cared in this Country....

[bwhite1948]

Granted for most people a sting is no biggie. But people who have an allergic reaction to them, or people with compromised immune systems or an elderly person in poor heath, scorpion stings can become life-threatening.

It's morphed into a reasonable and helpful discussion of medical services available to expats at Lakeside. This is very important, as we are all aging and will need more tests, and have more health issues.

One has to wonder if the Affordable Health Care Act (ACA) will be a disincentive to move to Mexico. The ACA allows people who wish to retire between the age of 50 and 64 (pre-Medicare) to buy into a group plan at a decent rate regardless of pre-existing conditions (it used to be prohibitively expensive for that age group to buy private health insurance in the US). For many current expats, the decision to retire early to Mexico was based in great part on the lack of insurance in the US and the availability of IMSS in Mexico. That changes drastically next year with ACA.

[lumieretoo]

That is why we are astonished when foreigners are eager to be admitted in SP or IMSS, everybody knows, or should know, that those institutions are the poorest, they always lack of medications and services....even nacionals know that if they need urgent or important attention, they must go to a private and costly consultation. Never expect to get a decent or proper service in those almost inexpensive services like SP or IMSS.....

Will I am astonished by this comment. I am a senior and have been using IMSS for several years. My medications are always available. Over the past year I have been treated by the clinic doctor, had lab tests in the hospital and seen a Urologist (3 visits) for urinary tract and benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), Very pleased with the care I have received.

[FHBOY]

One has to wonder if the Affordable Health Care Act (ACA) will be a disincentive to move to Mexico. The ACA allows people who wish to retire between the age of 50 and 64 (pre-Medicare) to buy into a group plan at a decent rate regardless of pre-existing conditions (it used to be prohibitively expensive for that age group to buy private health insurance in the US). For many current expats, the decision to retire early to Mexico was based in great part on the lack of insurance in the US and the availability of IMSS in Mexico. That changes drastically next year with ACA.

A good comment but a bit off topic. It does deserve discussion as viewed from an expat POV. Hope it can be continued.

[Bourbonman]

IMSS has some of the best Doctors in Mexico.,, but the environment, and sometimes the availability of medicines is less than desirable. My wife is Mexican and has received very good care from Seguro Popular. The Seguro Popular and IMSS clinics in Chapala are less than in other areas. I have received very good "Doctoring" from IMSS, and know many others that have.

I have also received very good medical care at Maskara Clinic.

The Doctors at Puerto Hierro Hospital are trained in the USA and are impressive.

But as stated before "PREPARE for EMERGENCY"

[Dr.Sam]

Last night my wife got stung by a scorpion about 11: pm she has been ill with nerve condition so we rushed the Cruz Rojo in Chapala and they had no meds and gave us directions to another place near the cemetary in Chapala which we could not find we finally came on home and with a little ice and little time for relaxing everything turn out OK. I share this as a warning I wasn't impressed at all and will try to keep more first aide items in house

Just my 2 centovos

Hello Phil,

I was not working last night, so I do not know exactly what happened. However, there is a lot of information missing in your post regarding the situation.

You say the Cruz Roja had no meds. The Cruz Roja has medication; they just did not offer the faboterapico, which as it turned out, was not even needed in her case. As for the place near the cemetery, they gave you the directions to the Chapala Municipal Clinic, which has no signs to guide you, and it is not in a place where anyone normally goes unless they live near it, or already know where it is.

First, here is the address to the municipal clinic:

Servicios Médicos Municipales

Chinchorros 29

Col. Centro

C.P. 45900 Chapala, Jalisco

Phone: 376 765 5421

‎Here is a map by Google:

http://maps.google.com.mx/maps?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:es-MX:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=chapala+municipal+clinic&fb=1&gl=mx&hq=municipal+clinic&hnear=0x842f4649cace3245:0x93e2b38820349598,Chapala,+JAL&cid=0,0,14434087707617481815&sa=X&ei=KfiXUbe2BYLJ0gH60oGgCQ&ved=0CHsQ_BIwAA

Now let´s talk about the Scorpion anti-venom and why there was not any (actually there was one vial at the time you came last night). Most scorpion stings in Chapala are not dangerous. Only a few require the actual anti-venom which is correctly called "faboterapico". Years ago in Mexico if there was a sting, the best medication was a serum taken from animals exposed to scorpion toxin. It was the blood of the animal, with the cells removed, which left the clear serum which contained the antibodies against the scorpion toxin. It worked, but it also caused many allergic reactions. Around 1994, scientists in Mexico invented faboterapico. It is a pure anti-venom. They start with serum, then purify it to have just the antibodies, then they take an enzyme called pepsin to cut off the tail of the antibodies which are washed away in the process. The result is a product of molecules that stick to the toxin, inactivate it, and does not usually cause any allergic reaction. It is the best and safest scorpion anti-toxin medication in the world. It has been used for years in Mexico, and finally approved by the FDA in 2011 after 17 years of safe use in Mexico.

If you want to have one dose in your personal refrigerator, as I do, the actual cost is $554 pesos. The retail price is around $800. If you want to have one dose for black widows, the cost is $2000, and retail is about $2600. However, only one person has ever come to me to ask if I would acquire the anti-toxin for them so they could have it in their house. Everyone else waits until they are stung, then they seek help.

You can go to any doctor that has the anti-toxin, pay $800 plus cost of medical attention, assuming you can even get them to talk to you at 11 pm, and assuming they have the anti-toxin. Or, you can go to the Municipal clinic or the Cruz Roja which both make a serious effort to not only have the anti-toxin, but also offer it for free. This happens because we receive the anti-toxin from the Secretary of Salud for free. However, there are conditions. The patient must have more than slight symptoms (and pain is not a reason to give the anti-toxin). Second, how many we are given by the Secretary of Salud is up to them. How many we have available is simple math (how many we are given minus how many patients need it). If we are given 20, and use 19 in the first 15 days, and you come on day 16, and we have one dose left, and you do not present with life-threatening symptoms, they will not give you the last reserved dose (we always reserve the last does for a life and death patient, usually a baby who gets stung and cannot breath). Sorry that you were "not impressed", but we do the best we can to manage the resources we have been given. The best that could have been offered to you would have been up to two hours of observation, which would have been stupid to do because if she had presented with anything less than life-threatening symptoms, she still would not have received the last dose. However, last night the Municipal Clinic had about 14 doses (versus our 1 reserved dose), and by going to the Municipal Clinic, as you were informed you could do, they could have given her the anti-toxin with only the minimum required symptoms. Sometimes they do not have the anti-toxin, and they send patients to us. Sometimes we run out of it, and send patient to them. If you want to donate 40 doses per month to us ($554 x 40 = $22,160 pesos), we can try to "impress" you with the availabilty of the anti-toxin. Otherwise, we can only do the best we can with what we have.

As for scorpion stings in general in this area, here is something I wrote for another forum:

Whether someone dies, feels extreme pain, or feel almost nothing from a scorpion sting is determined by the scorpion species, the body mass of the victim, the amount of venom injected, and the individual person.

In the lakeside area, there are two families of scorpions – Buthidae and Vaejovindae. The genus of Buthidae in Mexico are called Centruroides, and northern Mexico has some dangerous ones. Lakeside, you there are less dangerous species such as centruroides infamatus or centruroides elegans. The other family here is Vaejovindae, and its many species of the genus vaejovis. Most people cannot identify local scorpions because they have more similarities than differences. However, generally the more poisonous scorpions have smaller pincers that have less muscle force, and require a more venomous toxin to kill its prey. The species of Centruroides found here have slightly smaller pincers than Vaejovis, and thus a stronger toxin. Fortunately, if you are stung here, statistics show it will probable be by a species of Vaejovis. How much poison is injected depends on the situation. A scorpion needs poison to defend itself and to kill its prey. Using all of it just to sting you is not in its own interest. If you just bump it, it will likely not sting with all its venom. If it is trapped in your pant leg, shoe, etc, it will sting to try to save its life, and may give you all it has. If it has already stung, it many not have had time to regenerate more toxin, and will not be dangerous. Scorpion poison is a neurotoxin, and can work by either retarding inactivation (an α-toxin) or enhancing activation (a ß-toxin), both leading to spontaneous depolarization of excitable cells (nerves and muscles). Nerves are “short circuited” to send pain signals of a problem that does not really exist (there is no real skin burn, just the sensation). In small children, muscles can move in limbs, face and eyes from the action of the toxin on the nerves and muscles. Although the heart could be directly affected, this would be very rare from a scorpion here. Both sympathetic and parasympathetic systems are involved, so the person could have hypertension or hypotension, hypersalivation, or even priapism in severe cases. In most adults, important symptoms are from nerves controlling the mouth and throat. The most dangerous effects are those that inhibit the ability to breath, either by airway obstruction, or by respiratory failure. Allergy to the toxin is also a possibility, as is allergy to the anti-toxin. Symptoms are usually evident in the first 15 to 45 minutes, although rare atypical symptoms can be delayed as much 5 to 8 hours. Classic lakeside symptoms are extreme pain in the area stung, and clinically important cases will have an unusual sensation in the throat.

There are many treatments, but few work. I have seen grease, garlic, bleach, etc. Pain medications (NSAIDS) are not very effective. Opioids could potentiate vomiting and respiratory depression. Antihistamines (very commonly used) will mask the symptoms. Local injection of anesthesia will resolve the some pain, but rarely done. If the symptoms include an unusual sensation in the throat, an anti-toxin called Faboterapico may be necessary. Faboterapico is a Mexican invention from 1994, and was finally approved by the FDA in 2011. It is a purified and modified antibody treatment. It is widely available through the Secreteria de Salud. It is available locally at both the Chapala Cruz Roja and the Chapala Municipal Clinic. At this time, the Secreteria de Salud supplies it free of charge, but in the near future it may require the person to have Seguro Popular. To have scorpions in your house, you need two things – an entrance and food. Screens and door seals are important, as well and not having other insects in your house for them to eat.

[Natasha]

Just curious. How many of the people who have replied (especially the criticizing ones) realize that Red Cross (Cruz Roja) in Mexico is a FAR DIFFERENT kettle of fish than in Canada, U.S., and many other countries.

Here it is against the law for them to receive government funding. They must raise ALL their operating funds on their own, even though in many places (like Lakeside) their emergency services (ambulances etc.) are the only way accident and health emergency victims can be accessed and helped.

You did not say, and I am not implying anything, but from comments made to me by many others in the past, one reason people go charging off to Cruz Roja is they percieve (and expect) the service to be free. And one friend who took another there recently was quite astounded ( and then ashamed) to learn that they should have offered to pay something for the services rendered.

Yes, they will care for you and no, they will not demand payment (except for ambulance service to Guad) but "free" is intended for the people who really need it (like poor Mexicans). Foreigners who opt to go there for whatever reason should be prepared to ante up, and be generous when you do, or there will be no Cruz Roja service at all, and that would be the greater shame and tragedy.