122 replies to this topic

[Griffin]

The IMSS Rules are what are now being enforced in the Chapala office. The rules do exclude treatment of chronic diseases of the voluntary members. Often the Rules of an Administrative Agency fly in the face of the intent of the law but the legislators can't fix it if they don't know about it.

[elehne1]

Deleted

[elehne1]

Ajijic has answered this for you several times. Membership is not based upon what you own or where you live. Those questions are asked as part of a census and not for membership in SP.

Ajijic has also said that a pensioner is not charged and his family members are not charged if they are signed up as a family. That's why only the pensioner needs to apply for the family and family members are not asked any questions. I think that means that you had to be signed up as individuals if you both presented information when you signed up and that is why you are being charged. Why not have Ajijic's wife intervene, as he has offered several times, since she understands SP?

Griffin-the post was a response to Spencer per his request to ask SP what new law the SP employee was referring to when he advised we couldn't renew and now new foreigners. I also included a little information about our initial enrollment. My husband speaks fluent Spanish and answered all questions at our enrollment and we were issued a family policy for 3 months-not 2 individual policies. Per the SP and also Rolly's websites there could be a charge due from a member based on the answers to the questions.
Ajijic has been very helpful on this web board with Seguro Popular questions and also his wife helping others enroll as a facilitator. However, Spencer is local and we have used him for other items and will use him for assistance. We simply posted the information as it was given to us this morning at the Joco SP office to see if anyone else had heard this change by SP.

True, and exactly why SP could not have changed its laws and rules to exclude foreigners. SP allows illegal aliens from Central America to join SP so how can it not allow foreigners from the U.S. and Canada who are legal residents to join SP? Makes no sense to us either.

[solajijic]

It is necessary to consider that a program, intended to service a specific segment of society, does have a BUDGET. and if for some reason their numbers are not working well they have to make choices. It would be reasonable to assume they have to cut back services and refuse new clients or returning clients. Even though the constitution says no discrimination it isn't technically discrimination when a programs administrative rules change to accommodate the budget situation.

And like a previous poster I too think there can be a lot of personal subjective policing going on in these systems.

[manny]

i only know 4 mexicans who have used IMSS. (not SP). only one them had a good experience. she had a gall bladder attack & they rushed her into surgery. good results. the other lady was very ill for months. they delayed the important tests, & gave her medicine which did nothing. she suffered, but eventually w/in a year she had bladder surgery. also has to go to the USA to buy the medicine as they dont have it in mexico. the 3rd person didnt fool around, she paid for a test. saw my doctor & if she waited she may have lost a kidney as it was infected. the 4th person has had chronic knee pain for several years. the amount of hours she has spent waiting to see drs, & several months wait for the ultrasound etc, she worsened. missed work, suffered. i would have paid 600 pesos had the ultra sound & @least would know my options. NO thanks for IMSS. i wouldnt trust them if i had a car accident. btw, men from central america are higher on the food chain than you are. (@least for the medical care).

[Happy Feet]

We cant generalise about the ss or the sp. I would never go to any of them. But when a trustful American friend says she recently had fantastic service from ss and another friend from sp I think well perhaps the places are not as bad as they look.
We must remember that the aim of the sp is for the poor uninsured and the ss is for workers who dont have private insurance. MANY mexican companies pay for private insurance for their white collar workers in addition to paying ss. That must tell us something.

[Griffin]

Griffin-the post was a response to Spencer per his request to ask SP what new law the SP employee was referring to when he advised we couldn't renew and now new foreigners. I also included a little information about our initial enrollment. My husband speaks fluent Spanish and answered all questions at our enrollment and we were issued a family policy for 3 months-not 2 individual policies. Per the SP and also Rolly's websites there could be a charge due from a member based on the answers to the questions.

Ajijic has been very helpful on this web board with Seguro Popular questions and also his wife helping others enroll as a facilitator. However, Spencer is local and we have used him for other items and will use him for assistance. We simply posted the information as it was given to us this morning at the Joco SP office to see if anyone else had heard this change by SP.

The questions asked, if you rent or own, have nothing to do with how much you pay SP. That was a survey, a census, to find out statistics about those who enroll in SP.

I can't find anything on Rolly's site that explains what is needed or required to join SP. Rolly describes IMSS but not Seguro Popular.
http://rollybrook.com/imss.htm

I cannot find anything on the SP website that describes what one owns or doesn't own deciding what he pays to join. It is clear that it is based on income and age. Not what own owns. http://www.seguro-po...d=83&Itemid=175

Please find for us where it states the length of membership and fees are based on the questions about what one owns. I can't find it and what would owning a car or not owning one have to do with age or income? How could they possible set that up? People who have no income but own a car pay more than those who have a good income but don't own a car?

If according to Ajijic and others, a pensioner and his/her family do not pay for a membership, how could you have a family membership if the pensioner and wife are paying? Sort of impossible unless it was entered incorrectly.

Spencer also wrote that if SP is denying foreigners membership then it is in violation of the Constitution. It appears that once again the Joco office is jerking people around which it has done before. Nothing unusual but some people think the man who works there knows what he is doing when it is obvious he doesn't.

[Griffin]

We cant generalise about the ss or the sp. I would never go to any of them. But when a trustful American friend says she recently had fantastic service from ss and another friend from sp I think well perhaps the places are not as bad as they look.
We must remember that the aim of the sp is for the poor uninsured and the ss is for workers who dont have private insurance. MANY mexican companies pay for private insurance for their white collar workers in addition to paying ss. That must tell us something.

Calderon's goal for SP is to have all residents of Mexico who are not insured, enrolled in SP. Before SP was for the indigent but Calderon has been upgrading and building new facilities to treat a larger population which includes the middle class. IMSS, Mexican Social Security, is in trouble and eventually it will be rolled into SP. SP is no longer just for the poor.

[elehne1]

The questions asked, if you rent or own, have nothing to do with how much you pay SP. That was a survey, a census, to find out statistics about those who enroll in SP.

I can't find anything on Rolly's site that explains what is needed or required to join SP. Rolly describes IMSS but not Seguro Popular.
http://rollybrook.com/imss.htm

I cannot find anything on the SP website that describes what one owns or doesn't own deciding what he pays to join. It is clear that it is based on income and age. Not what own owns. http://www.seguro-po...d=83&Itemid=175

Please find for us where it states the length of membership and fees are based on the questions about what one owns. I can't find it and what would owning a car or not owning one have to do with age or income? How could they possible set that up? People who have no income but own a car pay more than those who have a good income but don't own a car?

If according to Ajijic and others, a pensioner and his/her family do not pay for a membership, how could you have a family membership if the pensioner and wife are paying? Sort of impossible unless it was entered incorrectly.

Spencer also wrote that if SP is denying foreigners membership then it is in violation of the Constitution. It appears that once again the Joco office is jerking people around which it has done before. Nothing unusual but some people think the man who works there knows what he is doing when it is obvious he doesn't.

Griffin-We know owning a home or car doesn't determine if you pay or not, simply stated in the post were facts as to our situation. Per our call with SP main office the cost is determined by the answers to the questions asked and input in their system. So, yes, there may be a cost involved per SP link you posted as I stated previously and also per Rolly's information as he posted on another forum. "There is a means test for free admission to Seguro Popular. It's a pretty odd test. For those who do not meet the means test, there is a small change. Read more here: http://rollybrook.co...th.htm#General"

[Griffin]

Double post

[Griffin]

Griffin-We know owning a home or car doesn't determine if you pay or not, simply stated in the post were facts as to our situation. Per our call with SP main office the cost is determined by the answers to the questions asked and input in their system. So, yes, there may be a cost involved per SP link you posted as I stated previously and also per Rolly's information as he posted on another forum. "There is a means test for free admission to Seguro Popular. It's a pretty odd test. For those who do not meet the means test, there is a small change. Read more here: http://rollybrook.co...th.htm#General"

My answers were exactly the same as your answers and I am not charged one peso. Why is that? You are paying $500 pesos every 3 months, or $2000 pesos a year. The highest SP charge is $11, 378.86 per family, not the $1300 pesos a year highest charge per family that Rolly states on his site. Does your FM3 show that you have income and are not a pensioner?
http://www.seguro-po...d=83&Itemid=175

From Rolly's site and I don't know where he got his information:
You are not charged if ONE of the following is true.

There is no charge for the insurance itself if any one of the following is true.

you rent

your house has no more than three rooms beyond the kitchen and bath room

you have only one bathroom

your income is solely from a pension like U S Social Security, etc

If you are above these limits, there will be a charge for the insurance depending on your apparent means. The maximum cost is $1,380 pesos for a family. Single adults pay half as much. More official information

From the SP site:
http://www.seguro-po...=100&Itemid=137

People who are eligible to join:

Reside in the National Territory

Being without any rights in any social security institutions (IMSS, ISSSTE, PEMEX, SEDENA, etc.)

In the Affiliation and Orientation Module apply for the affiliation of the family in a voluntary way.

Provide the necessary information to be able to carry out a socio-economic evaluation of the family, called Socio-Economic Household Features Card.

Submit original and copy of the following documents

Proof of Address
"Clave Única de Registro de Población" of each member of the family or any Official Document which has it, in case you don’t have it, copy of the birth certificate
Official ID with photo in it of the person who will act as head of the family
Receipt of payment for family quota that is always paid except in the case of families whose socio-economic condition means that they are entitled not to contribute
Additional documentation for those situations of families having children among 18 and 25 years old or be beneficiary of any federal program to fight poverty

In case of those families with children between 18 and 25 years old a must present a proof that they are studying media or higher education

Families that already benefit from Federal Government programs to alleviate extreme poverty should present a document containing the folio number of the beneficiary

[Griffin]

I believe you are being charged because your FM3 does not state "Rentista."

[Mainecoons]

On TOB, someone reported that the GDL news was carrying a story that foreigners would no longer be allowed to enroll in Seguro Popular. That is not IMSS as we all know by now. No reference given so I can't vouch for the validity of the report. The poster is a long time expat.

[exHawaiian]

Manny, are you living here? I don't "get out" much and still know expats and Mexicans both who have successfully used SP. And I think it is pretty rude for someone who lives here calling the gov't "cheesy", when you are benefiting from services they provide in many ways. So if your residence is on fire, don't call the "cheesy-gov't"-provided fire dept. This country is struggling to be better in so many ways.

[Mainecoons]

The question here is whether there is a NEW policy and they will no longer enroll other than Mexican citizens. Anyone have an answer to that?

[elehne1]

I believe you are being charged because your FM3 does not state "Rentista."

Griffin-We know what SP website says and do not know the answer as to why we are being charged. We are not sure how the employee entered our information in his system as one of the questions was if our income was from retirement..which it is. We don't believe our status on our FM3 has no bearing as it shows 'No Lucrativa' and once we get to the bottom of this we will post results.

[elehne1]

The question here is whether there is a NEW policy and they will no longer enroll other than Mexican citizens. Anyone have an answer to that?

Thank you Maincoons...that is exactly what we are trying to find out and once we have an answer from SP we will post the result on this thread.

[Ajijic]

We live in San Miguel and as recent as this week expats were accepted. Next, is part of the email my wife sends to those she helps. The plus for us here in SMA is they have a relatively new hospital and rated by most as best in SMA. Their office is on the same property making it easy. Locally nearly all expats are now joining SP for these reasons as IMSS main hospital is in Celaya, they have a large annual fee, will not accept those with pre-existing conditions and has age restrictions. Facilitators charge about 800 p per person but my wife charges 300 p.

Fees for coverage depends on how you answer questions such as: do you have cement, dirt or tile floor in your house; do you have a refrigerator and stove; how many TV´s; bathroom; number of bedrooms; do you work, do you own a car, etc?

These questions are computer generated and asked by the receptionist. The amount you may pay is also computer generated so I can not answer in advance if you will be charged a fee or the amount.

If you are retired, do not own property and do not work that usually means you will not be charged for Seguro Popular and you will not be asked your retirement income. Recently, clients reported home ownership yet did not pay a fee. Not one of her many clients have ever paid a fee but would have if asked. I was her first "guinea pig" and was turned down 2 years ago. Then the local office turned down every expat. Since then she has not had one client turned down and there are many. They go at 8 am and out before 9 am.

The requirements to enroll as per their web site and after many discussions with the main office in Mexico City are each of the following along with a copy:

1. Passport
2. What we normally refer to as a FM2/3 or Inmigrado card
3. An utility bill within 90 days preferably in your name but not a must ... only electric, telephone or water (not Telecable)
4. Birth certificate
5. Your CURP ID number (18 digits made up with letters from your name, birth date and numbers. This number is usually on a FM-3/2 visa (always if issued in San Miguel) and a separate card can be printed out at the following web site. You can plasticize it. You can also go to their web site and enter your name, Mexican state etc and may be surprised to see one has been issued.

http://consultas.curp.gob.mx/CurpSP/

[elehne1]

We live in San Miguel and as recent as this week expats were accepted. Next, is part of the email my wife sends to those she helps. The plus for us here in SMA is they have a relatively new hospital and rated by most as best in SMA. Their office is on the same property making it easy. Locally nearly all expats are now joining SP for these reasons as IMSS main hospital is in Celaya, they have a large annual fee, will not accept those with pre-existing conditions and has age restrictions. Facilitators charge about 800 p per person but my wife charges 300 p.

Fees for coverage depends on how you answer questions such as: do you have cement, dirt or tile floor in your house; do you have a refrigerator and stove; how many TV´s; bathroom; number of bedrooms; do you work, do you own a car, etc?

These questions are computer generated and asked by the receptionist. The amount you may pay is also computer generated so I can not answer in advance if you will be charged a fee or the amount.

If you are retired, do not own property and do not work that usually means you will not be charged for Seguro Popular and you will not be asked your retirement income. Recently, clients reported home ownership yet did not pay a fee. Not one of her many clients have ever paid a fee but would have if asked. I was her first "guinea pig" and was turned down 2 years ago. Then the local office turned down every expat. Since then she has not had one client turned down and there are many. They go at 8 am and out before 9 am.

The requirements to enroll as per their web site and after many discussions with the main office in Mexico City are each of the following along with a copy:

1. Passport
2. What we normally refer to as a FM2/3 or Inmigrado card
3. An utility bill within 90 days preferably in your name but not a must ... only electric, telephone or water (not Telecable)
4. Birth certificate
5. Your CURP ID number (18 digits made up with letters from your name, birth date and numbers. This number is usually on a FM-3/2 visa (always if issued in San Miguel) and a separate card can be printed out at the following web site. You can plasticize it. You can also go to their web site and enter your name, Mexican state etc and may be surprised to see one has been issued.

http://consultas.curp.gob.mx/CurpSP/

Thank you for your post and information. We are sure the ex-pats appreciate your wife's assistance. Very fair price charged as well.

[Griffin]

Did anyone call SP and get the answer to foreigners are or are not excluded from SP?