61 replies to this topic

[JayBearII]

Still going on when we left at 7:15. (Gotta get home before dark;) Good turnout by expats and local Mexicans as well. Chief Contreras dispelled some rumors and straightened out a few things; e.g. the body parts found in Riberas were related to the ones previously found--no new murders. The number of heads, limbs and torsos apparently match up, altho I was too appalled to do the math. He told everyone they should send their kids to school and go about their business normally. He did not provide any confirmation of rumors about threats to women and children. He exhorted the community to report suspicious activity in their neighborhoods, especially lots of coming and going at a rented house, poorly dressed people driving nice cars (I immediately decided I have to dress better!). The expats were polite and the local Mexicans seemed rather distressed and unsatisfied. A the time we left, complaints were being made about false checkpoints, impolite police, lack of prompt information about threats so people could respond (e.g. by staying indoors). I did not take notes--I am sure others will fill out the details and the Guad Reporter will have a full story. Thought some people would like an early report.

[lakeheron]

Soooo glad I didn't go.

[golden bead]

I attended and glad I did. Some things were cleared up somestill hazy. I was particularly glad to see the numbers of Mexicans and that they were so vocal. I was encouraged when the police chief admitted to the " trust issue" about the police. My only disappointment was there was a LOT, I mean really a LOT of encouraging people to report "unusual behavior" or " suspicious activity" BUT nothing substantial about what happens next? People are afraid of retaliation. Personally what wasn't presented was a PLAN, somthing to hold onto, give hope. These are just my impressions. Not trying to start a debate. Others may have come away with different ideas.

[jorgensen]

I also attended, and I wasn't impressed.
1. Regarding the format and structure: I don't think it was well handled. There were no handouts in English. And there should have been handouts with phone numbers and email addresses for everyone (English and Spanish). Also, the woman who was supposed to be translating to English forgot to translate quite often. She forgot her role.
2. I was not impressed with the police chief, I'm sorry to say. It was like pulling teeth to get info from him. His initial remarks should have been chock full of facts about what has happened so far, and what he's doing. Instead, his main emphasis was on what we're not doing - reporting crimes. That may be true, and it's a good point. But he used that time and again to deflect and avoid answering questions directly. He desperately needs a communications manager. He did not make points with me when he said we should all learn Spanish, for one thing. We're trying! But we need the information now. He gave out piecemeal phone numbers and website addresses, which weren't repeated so a lot of people didn't catch them. Again, they could have been on a handout. Also, he admitted he didn't have enough staff, but wasn't willing to do anything else to get more - or to get the military involved. The whole thing just left me feeling that he's overwhelmed, under-communicating, and ineffective. Sorry to say it, but there it is.

Now - having said all that - I do realize that this not an ex-pat problem. This is Mexicans battling Mexicans (at the present time). We just happend to be here. Since we do live here, though, we do have a stake in this. I, for one, would like to help, if I can. What do you think of someone volunteering to be the police's communications person on an on-going basis? For instance, that website he was referring to (www.chapala.gob.mx) doesn't translate by Google to English by itself. (I would do it, but I don't know Spanish well enough yet). Plus, the message isn't dated. Lots of communications 101 problems. Should we offer to help? Would it be resented? We could do the WalMart postings and the LCS postings. I think the guy needs help. What do you think?

[Chooch57]

Thanks much appreciated!

[Mad_Max]

I also attended, and I wasn't impressed.
1. Regarding the format and structure: I don't think it was well handled. There were no handouts in English. And there should have been handouts with phone numbers and email addresses for everyone (English and Spanish). Also, the woman who was supposed to be translating to English forgot to translate quite often. She forgot her role.
2. I was not impressed with the police chief, I'm sorry to say. It was like pulling teeth to get info from him. His initial remarks should have been chock full of facts about what has happened so far, and what he's doing. Instead, his main emphasis was on what we're not doing - reporting crimes. That may be true, and it's a good point. But he used that time and again to deflect and avoid answering questions directly. He desperately needs a communications manager. He did not make points with me when he said we should all learn Spanish, for one thing. We're trying! But we need the information now. He gave out piecemeal phone numbers and website addresses, which weren't repeated so a lot of people didn't catch them. Again, they could have been on a handout. Also, he admitted he didn't have enough staff, but wasn't willing to do anything else to get more - or to get the military involved. The whole thing just left me feeling that he's overwhelmed, under-communicating, and ineffective. Sorry to say it, but there it is.

Now - having said all that - I do realize that this not an ex-pat problem. This is Mexicans battling Mexicans (at the present time). We just happend to be here. Since we do live here, though, we do have a stake in this. I, for one, would like to help, if I can. What do you think of someone volunteering to be the police's communications person on an on-going basis? For instance, that website he was referring to (www.chapala.gob.mx) doesn't translate by Google to English by itself. (I would do it, but I don't know Spanish well enough yet). Plus, the message isn't dated. Lots of communications 101 problems. Should we offer to help? Would it be resented? We could do the WalMart postings and the LCS postings. I think the guy needs help. What do you think?

You might check with a group that stepped up to help a while back - I think they called themselves the liaison group. I remember they had a booth at the Chile Festival the year before last. Ann Heath was a member, Paul Raza etc As I recall they had a table or something near the station at certain hours to help expats etc - and they slowly dissolved - don't know why.

A problem when you offer to help - Yes is a polite answer even though they may not want or need that help. Better for them to ask for specific help based on THEIR priorities - is my two cents -

[lakeheron]

I also attended, and I wasn't impressed.
1. Regarding the format and structure: I don't think it was well handled. There were no handouts in English. And there should have been handouts with phone numbers and email addresses for everyone (English and Spanish). Also, the woman who was supposed to be translating to English forgot to translate quite often. She forgot her role.
2. I was not impressed with the police chief, I'm sorry to say. It was like pulling teeth to get info from him. His initial remarks should have been chock full of facts about what has happened so far, and what he's doing. Instead, his main emphasis was on what we're not doing - reporting crimes. That may be true, and it's a good point. But he used that time and again to deflect and avoid answering questions directly. He desperately needs a communications manager. He did not make points with me when he said we should all learn Spanish, for one thing. We're trying! But we need the information now. He gave out piecemeal phone numbers and website addresses, which weren't repeated so a lot of people didn't catch them. Again, they could have been on a handout. Also, he admitted he didn't have enough staff, but wasn't willing to do anything else to get more - or to get the military involved. The whole thing just left me feeling that he's overwhelmed, under-communicating, and ineffective. Sorry to say it, but there it is.

Now - having said all that - I do realize that this not an ex-pat problem. This is Mexicans battling Mexicans (at the present time). We just happend to be here. Since we do live here, though, we do have a stake in this. I, for one, would like to help, if I can. What do you think of someone volunteering to be the police's communications person on an on-going basis? For instance, that website he was referring to (www.chapala.gob.mx) doesn't translate by Google to English by itself. (I would do it, but I don't know Spanish well enough yet). Plus, the message isn't dated. Lots of communications 101 problems. Should we offer to help? Would it be resented? We could do the WalMart postings and the LCS postings. I think the guy needs help. What do you think?

Isn't that the role of Linda Fossi and the group she founded to be "our representatives?" Do we need more layers that don't change anything? Police are currently stopping Mexican plated cars near Ixtlahuacan, taking out and kids as young as twelve, pushing them against the car and otherwise roughing them up and then stealing their parents' money. When the police are criminals it is useless to expect them to be the solution. Once again, I will say my husband and I have had very personal experience with the police when the illegal landfill was going on in front of our house on the lake. We were threatened with death, had cameras knocked out of our hands and rocks thrown at us. All in front of local and state police. And what happened? Nothing.

[JayBearII]

I agree the chief needs a speech writer/ communications manager! But, points for showing up. Think he is out-gunned but trying.

[wisecracker]

What a surprise! Another waste of time and effort.

[GmaGoldilocks]

Honey, take it from an old woman...in mexico NO ONE should ever tell ANYONE in authority that he is doing less than a good job....and should that person be a female type, it gets far worse quickly...if that person is a female foreign type, Katie bar the door, someone just insulted a public official (who probably will be out and new personnel in after the July election anyway).

NOT a good thing, but hey...you seem to have a finger on the pulse of the area...go for it. You DO have work papers, right? Yep, even for a volunteer position.

[gravy]

the most revealing thing was the Mexicans responce towards the end ....they were clearly upset .......when they were going to stop because of the rain, they roared until they continued ..... it came so fast the translator couldn't keep up ....poor chief ..clearly rattled ....his cop entourage was amused
Johanson : they handed out stickers and hand outs with all pertanent phone numbers and a window thingy to put in you window about vecinos vigilando ( neighborhood watch )
no one seemed reasured

[saege007]

I am thankful I understand a lot of Spanish, because the translator was only translating bits and pieces of what was being said. She was summarizing and not in a helpful way. My observations were similar to those above. We had to leave early and got to the car just as it started raining.

[johanson]

the most revealing thing was the Mexicans responce towards the end ....they were clearly upset .......when they were going to stop because of the rain, they roared until they continued Johanson : they handed out stickers and hand outs with all pertanent phone numbers and a window thingy to put in you window about vecinos vigilando ( neighborhood watch ).....to repeat it here

Hi Gravy. I think you mean "Jorgensen", I'm up north for a few months like I do every year at this time to escape the hot weather. Up here, something is really wrong, the suns out and it's not raining..

I wish you all the best and hope that everything is calm down there. I've only been here 24 hours so I'm not homesick yet.

[Chapala Man]

the most revealing thing was the Mexicans responce towards the end ....they were clearly upset .......when they were going to stop because of the rain, they roared until they continued ..... it came so fast the translator couldn't keep up ....poor chief ..clearly rattled ....his cop entourage was amused
Johanson : they handed out stickers and hand outs with all pertanent phone numbers and a window thingy to put in you window about vecinos vigilando ( neighborhood watch )
no one seemed reasured ....[personal information deleted by moderator]

Yes, I know the story about [personal information deleted by moderator] family, and it is a sad thing that they feel they have to leave, but if the same thing happened to me, I am sure I would not let the door hit me in the arse as I was leaving.

Edited by CocinaMod, 17 May 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[ezpz]

In the plaza crowd, I was very embarrassed to see around a dozen gringo hands holding cocktails or other alcoholic beverages in the small visible radius around me. When I commented on that, smelling the booze in the take-out plastic cups of the people next to me, the man said, "Well, it's cocktail time,' and chuckled. I told him it wasn't funny. I believe the topics were fear, death, dismembered bodies, etc. - nothing funny about any of that.

The latte machine at the coffee shop kept whirring and obscuring the speakers, and I know few Mexicans can afford lattes, especially with the added booze.

I also noticed how many gringos' attention would wander when the speaking was being done in Spanish, as if no one else was there to listen. I know it's really hard for white people to wrap their heads around the fact that they/we are a small minority here. Please show some respect!

The Chapala jefe did make the point that the foreigners need to learn Spanish. He clearly said, "When I went to the US, I taught myself English." You should not rely on google translations, which are horrible, to understand Spanish online. The mechanical translations are often so bad you could be getting your facts all wrong.

You also need to know how to make emergency or urgent calls in Spanish and not get upset because the Mexican person does not speak English. It's simply part of everyday survival to understand the language and culture that you are actually living in, not the one you think you are living in. I'm not fluent, myself, but I can navigate through most situations, and I also make an effort to be proactively sociable in Spanish with Mexicans - that breaks a lot of ice. It's worth the effort.

The bi-lingual phone # to Canada is a great idea, but seemingly under-utilized. It seems few Mexicans are aware of it. Spread the word in Spanish to your employees and neighbors. Few Mexicans are media addicts; they do not use the internet to the great extent of the northerners. You need to speak with them - in their language! The social network in small-town Mexico is actually human beings talking to other human beings. What a concept!

My neighborhood was still deathly quiet tonight. You'd think that might be nice unless you knew why. People are staying indoors with their lights out. 3 black law enforcement vehicles slowly passed by before dark - state? federales? I don't know. Neighbors look furtively both ways before they step out of their front door. Then, they cross themselves. My maid told me she does the same thing.

This is the new normal. Ojallla, it won't last forever. Say your prayers and mediate on peace.

[jorgensen]

Did anyone catch that Canadian anonymous phone number?

[jorgensen]

I was talking with my (Mexican) handyman earlier today, and asked him why he thought the cartels were targeting this area. He said it was because they know the Mexican nationals here are a little more affluent, and can afford drugs. And they're a little more affluent because they get paid by us, the affluent foreigners. Sad.

[johanson]

You made some good points there ezpz. It's really sad how few of us from the US and Canada do speak Spanish. As I posted earlier I'm up North right now. I'm in an area that demands that the Spanish speaking folks learn English.

It's to bad that when most of get to Mexico, that rather than learning Spanish, we demand that the locals communicate to us in English in Mexico.

Just my five cents worth

Pete.
El Ruco

PS yes I speak Spanish, but I need to speak it a lot better than I do

[Alex]

I'm not a big fan of cops but Chief Contreras gets both my respect and my sympathy. I thought the mayor was supposed to be there. I thought there would be a representative from the state police. No...they bailed and dumped it all in the Chief's lap.

I thought the translation was damn good. That is a very difficult job. Sometimes it got a little sketchy. For instance, "rumor y suposicion" came out "rumor and superstition."

I'll leave the details for others to tell here. But, in general, I thought the Chief showed a lot of courage just by being there. He (and his entire department) took a lot of abuse from the largely Mexican crowd. He sucked it up like a real man.

[GeckoGretchen]

THANKS for passing on the information from the meeting. I too am ashamed I do not know enough Spanish, but I am trying.... trouble is the older you get the harder it gets! I realize that knowing what has happened is very important, I think we all need to hear what people think is going to happen. Not so easy. Was there any inkling of how the authorities were handling the situation apart from asking for people to report anything unusual they see??