61 replies to this topic

[bournemouth]

I assumed, obviously wrongly, that an ad in Pagina would be a generic one from the foreign community in general, expressing our sadness at events and sympathy with the local community. No way in the world would I put my name in an ad.

[lakeheron]

That would be my assumption too. But if this is creating fear in members of the community, we need to think twice. I found a wonderful quote from Mother Theresa, translated into Spanish, that I thought would be appropriate to put on whatever it is we would do.

"Si no tenemos paz en el mundo, es porque hemos olvidado que nos pertenecemos el uno al otro, que ese hombre, esa mujer, esa criatura, es mi hermano o mi hermana."

It expresses my feelings beautifully if we just added that we stand together with our Mexican family.

[Shira]

Several people had been in favor of a newspaper ad. I have not been and had no plans to put any names to it if we did it. It would be generic.
We had left open all possibilities asking for your input. We have been listening. What we had not thought about was what the poster said about bringing us to the attention of th narcos. I think they know we are here.
How do the posters feel if we continued forward on the poster plan? It would take about two weeks until it was signed and put up. It could be signed and diplayed later.
What about the fund to help the families of victims who have had to deal with the cost of burial along with dealing with grief?
Should we do nothihng or prgress with one or another of the thiings that have been proposed?
Please give us your input.

[MaggieL]

I assumed, obviously wrongly, that an ad in Pagina would be a generic one from the foreign community in general, expressing our sadness at events and sympathy with the local community. No way in the world would I put my name in an ad.

Exactly .. nobody wants THEIR name on there, for obvious reasons. However, a 'generic one from the foreign community' means ALL of us, and a few people don't have the right or the authority to do that.

Some expats don't have the luxury of staying home -- we own restaurants (that you are now avoiding) we have businesses, we travel to Guadalajara several times a week out of necessity, we show empty houses to people we don't know .... we have kids etc ..

We don't spend that much time on this webboard, as part of this group that seems to have taken it upon itself to 'decide' to engage in a gesture that draws attention to us.

[Jeanne B]

I think this should all go away and let the Mexican families mourn and grieve as they have for hundreds of years. I am sure the Mexican communities know of our support without "putting it on public display". We employ them, support their businesses and generally care about them and they know it. Think about it, are you really doing this for them or for yourselves? In no way will I support any public "group" condolences. And remember this forum group is only a small minority of the ex-pats here. I know all of your hearts and prayers are in the proper place, but let's not interfere in this. I know a lot will disagree with me but that's just how I feel. Have a wounderful day. Jeanne.

[Jeanne B]

Jeanne B this will not be about any one person.
What I am hearing tonight there may be many more to grieve for.

But the topic of this thread is "How can we honor Abel".

[Shira]

Jeanne B I read what you wrote and a few things stand out. One you think we are doing this for ourselves. People tend to say what they feel and I guess you have no compassion for the terrible suffering that the families here are dealing who have lost their loved ones or some some cases still don't know what has happened to the. them. I know many of the people who are posting on this topic and they are struggling to find a way to let their neighbors know the grief they too are feeling at the terrible loss of lives.. They have empathy.
Do the Mexicans know we care about them because we employ them and do business with them. Not every Mexican in the area is in "our service" and many who do come in contact with the foreign community have to wonder if we even see them or truly acknowledge them. The vast majority of the Mexican community has limited to no contact with the foreign community.
After your tag of Have a wonderful day, I can tell you that most of us are having a difficult time getting through each of these days with any comfort. Those who lack compassion and empathy can have a wonderful day. So, you have a wonderful day.

[Betsy]

In La Pagina there is a condolence section where families or groups publish their condolences , and like Shira said, no individual names required.
I suppose I would not want my name on anything, but it seems like there are enough people in favor of both ideas to do both the poster and ad.
I would imagine that there will be several announcements of this type in the next edition of la Pagina.

[mexicanamama]

I honored Abel's memory by attending his funeral mass and burial, ( I think I was one of the two gringas in attendance, where were the rest of you? Actions speak louder than words). I wept for the senseless loss of lives and for Mexico. I eat at Mario's to show my continuing support. I talk with my neighbors and they know how saddened I am by these events. I am not in favor of putting my name on a poster and I now agree that it is not up to us to make the decision to buy an ad in the name of all the expats in the area. Initially I thought it a good idea, on reading some of these posts I find I have changed my mind.

[ladyoflake]

What do you think of this idea? How about, instead of paper, you use fabric and markers made especially for fabric, that everyone can use to sign their names and condolences? It's a more lasting tribute than the paper.

[Chapala Man]

ladyoflake, on 14 May 2012 - 03:40 PM, said:

What do you think of this idea? How about, instead of paper, you use fabric and markers made especially for fabric, that everyone can use to sign their names and condolences? It's a more lasting tribute than the paper.

Why would anyone want to put their NAME on anything. If you want to honor Able, or any of the others that were murdered, please do so, but make it personal, and do not include all of the Ex-Pats. Thats my other 2 cents, and if this keeps up, soon, I will have given a dime.

[Canookie]

Good grief...if you want to do something for one or all of the families JUST DO IT!!! Why does it have to be a group effort, why do you have to have 50 ideas - good idea, oh no bad idea, oh, what about this idea - a bench, a poster - paper or fabric??, put my name on it..no, don't put my name on it.,..money, food...for heaven's sake JUST DO IT yourself!!!!

[Felice]

The thread makes me feel so proud to be here.....all these loving hearts - congratulations to you all for standing beside our friends and neighbors in this community and for wanting to show your support. I'm in for whatever the final decision is.

[lakeside101]

i do not personaaly know any of the familys impacted by this latest violence. i would contribute to a fund that dispersed funds towards funeral expenses to these and future victims. i am deeply saddened by what is happening, but an post in the paper should not state "the expat community' a subset of this board does not speak for the large and diverse group living here.

[Jeanne B]

Jeanne B I read what you wrote and a few things stand out. One you think we are doing this for ourselves. People tend to say what they feel and I guess you have no compassion for the terrible suffering that the families here are dealing who have lost their loved ones or some some cases still don't know what has happened to the. them. I know many of the people who are posting on this topic and they are struggling to find a way to let their neighbors know the grief they too are feeling at the terrible loss of lives.. They have empathy.
Do the Mexicans know we care about them because we employ them and do business with them. Not every Mexican in the area is in "our service" and many who do come in contact with the foreign community have to wonder if we even see them or truly acknowledge them. The vast majority of the Mexican community has limited to no contact with the foreign community.
After your tag of Have a wonderful day, I can tell you that most of us are having a difficult time getting through each of these days with any comfort. Those who lack compassion and empathy can have a wonderful day. So, you have a wonderful day.

Shira you are wong about me. I am very compassionateand have more empathy than you will ever know or probably want to know and it saddens me that this tragedy has happened.. I just feel the ex-pat community while trying to cope and send their condolences, should be done in a more private matter. Before this gets too personal, I will not post about this again as even though you don't know me, you have already made your mind up on what you want to do. And again I will say, Have a wonderful day. Better than saying Have a Miserable day. Gotta agree on at least that. Right?

[chapalafan]

Everyone has their own way to grieve and their own way to express that grief. My heart goes out to the families who lost their loved ones. However, I agree with others such as Canookie, Mexicanamama, and Chapala Man.There is no one on this board who speaks for everyone so nothing, in my opinion, should come from the expat community...a poster (paper or fabric), a bench, a newspaper ad, or money.

Though it might sound like a good idea at first, I have to wonder why a group effort to express condolescnces to families of selected victims' would be the choice to make. I would be very concerned in hurting some of our Mexican friends who did not get a "group condolence."

[bournemouth]

The heading of this thread has bothered me from the beginning - only one person named when so many have been lost.
Perhaps all we can and should do is make sure the people who work with/for us and all our Mexican friends understand how saddened we are at what is happening to their villages and their lives.

[lakeheron]

The heading I gave this thread was not mindful nor considerate. LaChula pointed out that there were many more victims from here.I agreed one hundred percent with what she wrote. Unfortunately there is no way to edit a thread title so we are stuck with it. I am very sorry. I grieve for all those who were murdered and their family and friends who must now live with a new reality. Please know that I would change what I said if I could.

[MaggieL]

lakeheron: I don't think there is anything 'wrong' at all with your original post title.

Mario (and his family) are 'known' to many of us, it's only natural that we would feel his loss on a deeper level -- that is not disrespectful of the other victims, it's just the way it is.

What has happened at Lakeside has shocked everyone .. and if you wanted to 'honor' a victim in particular, because he is a familiar person, as opposed to others, I don't think you need to apologize for that to anyone. Of course the whole tragedy is horrible, we all know that... but .. let's be honest, Abel's ordeal and death, AND the pain of his family, is felt, to a greater degree, by those who care about this family.

[chapalafan]

I hope this thread ends soon. I cannot believe that it has gotten to measuring the degree of grief being felt. This is not a contest.