36 replies to this topic

[elehne1]

We live in Joco and have many trees as does the town and malecon area, too. Not sure what Alex is referring to when posting they don't have trees in Joco. We prefer this area of the lake and the many improvements made in the streets and the malecon area, too.

[gringal]

This is only tangential to the main topic at hand, which seems to be competitive views on where the "best" place in lakeside is.

What I'm often hearing is the gringo-averse gringos, of all things. What's THAT about? You don't want to have too many of your own former countrymen and women in your neighborhood? iMO, that's that the most convoluted form of reverse snobbery I've heard. Can someone please explain it to me in simple terms?

[HelperGuy]

Helper guy MOST of the streets in Ajijic are not arroyos. Much of Ajijic is sloped more than either Chapala (except for NW side) or Jocotepec (except for north side where Fred lives) and water runs down hill. There are several streets east of Seis Esquinas that actually are arroyos. That is typical Mexican construction. They don't have a lot of storm sewers here. Welcome to Mexico.

Right, agreed, that's why I said many. And it has to have been difficult to plan the road construction, which was many many years ago, and then be faced with huge expansion, lack of infrastructure, and decisions on whether to mix different types of road construction in one village. If it was me, I would stick with the cobbles for financial, infrastructure, and construction purposes, rather than try to split it all up and face endless connection problems. And there are many more "streets" in Ajijic, SAT, and Riberas that now look like roads but were originally arroyos. You'd have to ask long-time villagers or other old-timers, like my girlfriend, living here for 33 years now, to know which ones. For example, the main boulevard running down from the 7-11 in Riberas? Arroyo. Alan W Lloyd in SAT? Arroyo. (And anything built on the side of the mountain is just asking for trouble.)

[MtnMama]

This is only tangential to the main topic at hand, which seems to be competitive views on where the "best" place in lakeside is.

What I'm often hearing is the gringo-averse gringos, of all things. What's THAT about? You don't want to have too many of your own former countrymen and women in your neighborhood? iMO, that's that the most convoluted form of reverse snobbery I've heard. Can someone please explain it to me in simple terms?

I think I can tell you how my husband and I feel. We are so frequently mortified at the behavior of our fellow countrymen and women that we prefer to be in Joco or Chapala where we are expected to speak Spanish, and no one is surprised when we behave in a respectful manner. I watch gringos throw temper tantrums over minor inconveniences, screaming or shouting in English when the clerk clearly doesn't understand and behaving as if they are somehow entitled to extra special treatment because they are "them". I see them stomp down the street with a glower on their face, ignoring every smile and hola and adios. I am tired of apologizing to my shopkeeper friend after some gringa has yelled at her for not speaking English. I see them spend too much time criticizing and too little time trying to understand the culture of the community they now live in.

So I guess I'm a snob.

[gringal]

Have you only paid attention to the brats among us.........or have you noticed that most expats really well mannered and polite to their Mexican neighbors?
The trouble is that, as in everything else, the brats stand out in the crowd.

[Trailrunner]

I think I can tell you how my husband and I feel. We are so frequently mortified at the behavior of our fellow countrymen and women that we prefer to be in Joco or Chapala where we are expected to speak Spanish, and no one is surprised when we behave in a respectful manner. I watch gringos throw temper tantrums over minor inconveniences, screaming or shouting in English when the clerk clearly doesn't understand and behaving as if they are somehow entitled to extra special treatment because they are "them". I see them stomp down the street with a glower on their face, ignoring every smile and hola and adios. I am tired of apologizing to my shopkeeper friend after some gringa has yelled at her for not speaking English. I see them spend too much time criticizing and too little time trying to understand the culture of the community they now live in.

So I guess I'm a snob.

Thank you Mt. Mama! If that's being a snob, then you can put me in that column too.

[Elizabeth63]

My main objective was to try and understand why Joco's streets and sidewalks are in such better condition than what I experience here in Ajijic. It seems to me, that with the income coming in from the expat communities here in Ajijic, the many gated and upscale developments, with the gift shops, restaurants, etc., that Ajijic ought to have more money to spend on improvements on things like roads (instead I see a very light drizzle of road tar followed by loads of loose gravel when the carretera was 'repaved' recently....) And the fact that I see large trash cans and very little road trash in Joco, but here in Ajijic, it's embarrassing to walk past the same overflowing trash cans or see the bags of trash that the stray dogs have ripped apart, etc. and that days go by before a trash truck picks up the stacks of trash bags along the corners. Why are there people in Joco who go around and sweep up the streets and not here?
Like I mentioned in my original post, I was told that Joco's govt. spends their funds on the town, (where the funds are supposed to go) and here in Ajijic, the funds end up in the pockets of the greedy. I am inclined to believe that.

[RVGRINGO]

I guess we're in the boat with MtMama and Trailrunner. We moved from Ajijic to Chapala in 2004 for some of those same reasons, but mostly because Ajijic was becoming a 'boutique' and some began the affectation of referring to it as, "The Village"; shades of Santa Fe! It was also obvious that walking and shopping were much more convenient and pleasurable in Chapala, and there were none of those embarrassing 'incidents at the SuperLake checkout', so less need to apologize for our countrymen.
That said, we still have friends in and around Ajijic, but they aren't hard to visit or join for a meal. After all, it is only five miles away.

[gringal]

i'm a snob on a different level........I don't respect anyone whose mamma didn't teach them any manners. Some people who moved here just don't "get it" and their behavior reflects that.
I don't number them among my friends. On the other hand, I don't feel personally responsible for other expats' behavior.

[Elizabeth63]

Great....now with all this bickering about 'expats' etc. this topic will probably get locked...not really what I was hoping for....

[RVGRINGO]

My main objective was to try and understand why Joco's streets and sidewalks are in such better condition than what I experience here in Ajijic. It seems to me, that with the income coming in from the expat communities here in Ajijic, the many gated and upscale developments, with the gift shops, restaurants, etc., that Ajijic ought to have more money to spend on improvements on things like roads (instead I see a very light drizzle of road tar followed by loads of loose gravel when the carretera was 'repaved' recently....) And the fact that I see large trash cans and very little road trash in Joco, but here in Ajijic, it's embarrassing to walk past the same overflowing trash cans or see the bags of trash that the stray dogs have ripped apart, etc. and that days go by before a trash truck picks up the stacks of trash bags along the corners. Why are there people in Joco who go around and sweep up the streets and not here?
Like I mentioned in my original post, I was told that Joco's govt. spends their funds on the town, (where the funds are supposed to go) and here in Ajijic, the funds end up in the pockets of the greedy. I am inclined to believe that.

You have missed the fact that Ajijic is not the center of the universe. It is a tiny fraction of the Municipalidad de Chapala and Chapala is the center of things around here. Jocotopec is the center of things out there, etc., etc. As for the trash; you aren't supposed to put it out until the truck is in your neighborhood. Listen for the cow bell.

[tim11]

Chapala is street people, drugs and drunks, street gangs and the center of the ****** Cartel for the Lake, it isn't popular to discuss the number of drug deaths in Chapala, ask the dead Asst Chief of police that was killed down town
Ajijic doesn't do cow bells

[carib]

I had been here 7 years and my observation about Joco is a favorable one. It has improved a lot since I've been here. On the other side, Ajijic has been declining for the last 3 years. Clean around the downtown section and the plaza but a lot of street garbage up the hill from the carretera. I don't mind cobblestones, but many of the street are in a deplorable condition.The stretch between El Torito up to El Sarape is a mess. There should be some kind of beautification in front of all those business like they are doing in Chapala. A decent sidewalk. Also they should have some kind of agreement with the merchants to avoid the chaos that their displaying is brings to the eye. If you walk Chapala and Joco main streets, you see the difference, a simple but orderly way to display the merchandise without interfering with the pedestrian. This is good for the pedestrian but also for business. Remember, this is the face of town where everybody transit before getting into the plaza and the church. I go to Ajijic often and I've seen a slow but perceptible deterioration of the area (mostly in poor areas or streets). About Chapala, well, too busy for me. Overall the place is looking much better since moving here but still lack the availability and conveniences Joco and Ajijic has. For me, I am a country girl at heart and I tried living walking distance for all this amenities and others but after three month I had to choose between convenience and accessibility or to driving and live in a quiet and peaceful environment. That is why I live in Brisas de Chapala and as long as I live in Mexico, this is my favorite place to be. When you choose a place where you will stay for a prolong period, your priorities will show the way.
Good Luck

[carib]

Chapala is street people, drugs and drunks, street gangs and the center of the ****** Cartel for the Lake, it isn't popular to discuss the number of drug deaths in Chapala, ask the dead Asst Chief of police that was killed down town
Ajijic doesn't do cow bells

You have it wrong, the area as a whole is Cartel Teritory. Well, about the death of the Ixtlahuacan ###. Chief of police is one of the many deaths in the area. No more. no less. There is no place to hide when mayhem erupt. Gated communities may be some kind of save haven but you have to drive from your security blanket. Mexican have a long way to go before the country catch up with the environmental movement. Maybe the children will teach the way. About drugs it is all about supply and demand. People demand and the Cartel supply. Don't think anyone is exempt because they only do pot once in a blue moon. Their habits are funding all the deaths occurring around the world. Some of the countries in Central and South America are talking about legalization. It is a scary proposition but what we are doing now is not working. Like my husband says: Thank God I have not many years left.

[bmh]

As far as I know Superlake is in San Antonio a separate village from Ajijic. So I do not see why you have to blame Ajijic people for some rude people in Superlake. I have seen people from Chapla to Jocotepec at Superlake and I would not think of blaming one place or another for some rude ignoramus.
I know plenty of people in Ajijic who speak good Spanish as well , all these stereotyping are in pretty poor taste in my opinion.

[manny]

tim11 is right about chapala, very depressing. but there are awful parts of ajijic! in back of plaza montana, 6 corners etc. i agree w/the poster who said the business strip is degenerating in ajijic. it is disgusting to see, the garbage & shabbiness. havnt been to joco in 6years, maybe it has improved. there were few or no trees when i was there. i prefer the better areas of ajijic. mainecoons lives on a beautiful street, but now there is loud music, you might as well be on chapala plaza! never would imagine that could happen. ajijic central (the nice blocks) thru floresta is the best place. trees, clean, convenient, & we hope not too much noise, (maybe).

[ambconsultants]

I have lived in the area for 22 years. One of the differences is there is old money in Jocotepec and there is a fairly large educated middle to upper class. As I understand the history Chapala was part of the Municipality of Jocotepec until the end of the 1800's. One of the pricipal stage coach stops in this part of Mexico was in Jocotepec. Lloyds actually started in Jocotepec. Reasons for better services.
1) Smaller downtown. Projects are noticed.
2) The last three presidents have focused on Public works.
3) It is election time so they are trying to get everything looking great.
4) Less weekend tourists and more full time residents.
5) And well is just nice here- less traffic to.
6) Jocotepec is the town seat.
7) Jocotepec is actually a town on a highway that goes elsewhere and at Chapala the highway ends so there is more state and federal funding for hiqhways surrounding Jocotepec.

At least this is my opinion.