36 replies to this topic

[Elizabeth63]

In the past several weeks, I have been spending more time in Jocotepec. I can't help but make several comparisons from my brief observations there, between Ajijic and Joco. The most obvious differences to me are these:

*the roads and streets in Joco are in good shape, with very few streets composed of cobble stones. They are smooth in many places, and even paved. I currently reside on Marcos Castellanos, 1/2 block from the church and LCS, and my neighborhood struggles to keep the cobblestone streets drivable. I found driving in Joco to be a whole lot easier and smoother.

*the sidewalks in Joco are wider and level, with smooth surfaces. I noticed right away at how much easier it is to walk around Joco. As I am a walker here in Ajijic, it is always necessary for me to pay very close attention to all the cracked brick, tile or concrete walkways, as they are falling apart, too narrow, or even non-existent.

*there are very few street dogs in Joco. It's not that I don't like dogs, I do. But there are quite a few homeless, scruffy street dogs here in Ajijic, and I only counted 2 on my walks around Joco. This also translates into much less dog doo on the sidewalks. Something I think we all can appreciate.

*there is very little trash along the streets or sidewalks, or in the plaza in Joco. I noticed people with trash cans inside their push carts, who walk around the streets sweeping up all the trash! The plaza has large trash receptacles, and people use them. I didn't see over-filled trash cans, and the sidewalks looked clean to me. As I walk around Ajijic, it is sometimes an obstacle course as there is so much trash here and there, and the few small trash cans mounted to the poles, are either over-filled, lacking trash bags, or removed from the poles.

*the malecon in Joco also has people who go around sweeping and cleaning and emptying the trash cans! (and they are large ones, so no spilling out on the sidewalks). I personally have spent numerous hours in my past 1 1/2 years here picking up the trash along the lake and along the malecon, and I can attest to the difficulty in finding a trash can to dispose of the numerous bags of trash I pick up.

So, I am wondering, just why is it, that the town of Joco's infrastructure is so different that Ajijic's?
I asked around to some old timers here, and was told that the town government in Joco actually spends the money they receive for the town on improvements and maintenance. And that the town government in Ajijic, a part of Chapala, does not. And that a lot of the money ends up in the pockets of greedy people instead of town improvements.

Perhaps you have a different or better explanation? I'd be curious to know what you think.

[RVGRINGO]

Cobblestones last forever, can be removed for quick repairs and are 'quaint and traditional'. Where they've been paved over in Chapala, the pavement doesn't last. The cobblestone streets may be several hundred years old.
Sidewalks are not the responsibility of the municipal government in the Municipality of Chapala. They belong to the homeowner and are his responsibility to maintain.
To have it otherwise, you might have to return to the USA and the associated higher taxation. Things are different here.

[thevalerieleigh]

Interesting topic...Was just in Joco a couple of days ago and enjoying their beautiful Malecon. I also marveled at how beautifully done the Malecon is, the abundance of large trash cans, cops on foot and on bicycle patrolling the area, kids playing on the great new playground equipment....

I can only guess that the current Mayor has allocated funds to promote these projects.

I will definitely go back to enjoy their Malecon once/week in the future.

Valerie

[bournemouth]

Part of the financial difference may be that Jocotepec is the seat of the municipality and the authorities chose to spend their money in the seat. Ajijic is merely a part of Chapala and Chapala does not seem to send much money to Ajijic. The malecon in Chapala can fairly be compared to the one in Joco - municipal seat to municipal seat.

[tim11]

The problem is it appears that Joco is now a major drug location, location

[MtnMama]

I lived in Joco for a couple of years, and would add that shopping is easier with dozens of well stocked tiendas for produce, meats, fish, dairy and general groceries. I haven't found anything close in Chapala.

I suspect it is also more modern because it is not trying to be a cute little arty tourist destination but rather a modern village with nearby agribusiness bringing in additional income.

[MtnMama]

Cobblestones last forever, can be removed for quick repairs and are 'quaint and traditional'. Where they've been paved over in Chapala, the pavement doesn't last. The cobblestone streets may be several hundred years old.
Sidewalks are not the responsibility of the municipal government in the Municipality of Chapala. They belong to the homeowner and are his responsibility to maintain.
To have it otherwise, you might have to return to the USA and the associated higher taxation. Things are different here.

Many of the streets are "paved" with paver bricks which seem to last for a very long time and can be replaced individually if broken.

[ldutton]

Great improvements in SJC over the course of the last couple of months. The parking spaces along the main road have been paved in cobblestones, flat stones, not the 'rock' cobblestones like in Ajijic. Sidewalks are now being installed and are four feet wide.!!! and FLAT.
I was impressed.
Ajijic is starting to look like a DUMP !!! I hate it... and its 'quaint ' cobblestones,and its garbage and inability to pull off the road to park at stores between Castellano and Tempesque - it really is an eyesore compared to Joco and Chapala.

[RVGRINGO]

Remember; 'downtown' is in Chapala and that's where the Mercado Publico and the full array of stores are located. Ajijic is a 'suburb'/part of Chapala and is not a complete town. Chapala is where the huge Monday tianguis may be found; cheaper and more diverse than the little tourist tianquis in Ajijic on Wednesdays.
Unfortunately, those pavers (adoquin) sink into the soft ground pretty easily; but, you are right, they are replaced easily. That said, cobblestones do serve to keep traffic at a slower pace on the smaller streets; an absolute necessity.

[Jeanne B]

I lived in Joco for a couple of years, and would add that shopping is easier with dozens of well stocked tiendas for produce, meats, fish, dairy and general groceries. I haven't found anything close in Chapala.

I suspect it is also more modern because it is not trying to be a cute little arty tourist destination but rather a modern village with nearby agribusiness bringing in additional income.

Not a critisim but curious: Why did you move from Joco to Chapala? I was thinking of going to Joco when I was looking for a house, but found a (cannot refuser price) house in La Floresta. I'm still thinking about Joco (fewer gringos).

[MtnMama]

We moved because dear husband wanted a new hiking venue. And at the time we couldn't find a suitable rental.

[tim11]

Jocotepec has been a cristal point for several years for the lake region, With the new road from Guad it is better to masamittla, sorry Jocotepec is a very progressive town

[tobyjug]

Joco is an agriculture area, lots of farming etc on the outskirts..seems many of the roads have large pot holes..great place if you do not want to grow up in a Gringo ghetto..not sure why they had problems paying its police force a few months back ..has a Green Cross Ambulance service not sure what that is, but gets by with out the Red Cross and the IMSS is/was more customer friendly and better access/parking for for disabled people..land there is not cheap

[Mainecoons]

Some of us like our cobblestones. They work great for slowing people down. Lots of them in Chapala as well. In the last several years, the government has done a better job IMO of keeping them in basic repair. Speaking for myself only, I really prefer the cobblestones to bland pavement that requires topes to stop the speeding.

You can't compare Joco to Ajijic. As noted above, Joco and Chapala are the municipal seats, that's where most of the money goes. And in the case of Chapala, most of the Tapatios too. We are happy for Chapala to keep most of the crowds, traffic and noise on the weekends. Ajijic is much more peaceful, with the exception of a couple of bad apple "restaurants" who play loud amplified music too often and too late.

I'd like to see stepped up enforcement of sidewalk repair. In a few cases here lately, they have come around and told people to put sidewalks in. If they would also tell people to repair them, the walking situation would improve. However, it is a very old village, first settled around 1600. The streets are extremely narrow in the core, no getting around that. We just consider it good exercise and training for keeping sharp. To borrow a football term, we get to do a lot of "broken field" walking in Ajijic.

IMO Ajijic is vastly superior to Chapala when it comes to restaurants. And we also like our more intimate Malecon which has steadily improved over time. Long before the Chapala anti-graffiti effort began, volunteers here had succeeded in ridding our Malecon of graffiti. I'm pleased to report that the Chapala volunteers have made great strides in this direction as well. Shame on the Chapala government for allowing the taggers to blight the Malecons in both Chapala and Ajijic! Kudos to the volunteers for stepping up and getting the government's work done for them.

If bigger towns, more people, more daytime noise, more traffic, more shopping options is your thing, Chapala pr Joco are your places. For a more sedate and upscale setting, Ajijic fills the bill. There is a reason houses are more expensive there, many Mexicans and expats prefer the greener, quieter setting and are willing to pay for it. That's the beauty of this area, though, there is a setting and life style and price for practically everyone, from busy village, to less busy village, to beautiful view homes on the hillside. This variety is one of the things that we find most appealing about this area.

Oh and as for the dogs, most of the dog crap comes from either inconsiderate expat dog walkers or their employee dog walker that do not pick up the crap. I seriously doubt we have any more Mexican street dogs than anyplace else. Unfortunately, the majority of dog owners do little to clean up their pets messes or control their noise.

[indiesmom]

On the subject of Jocotepec. I have picked up some rumblings in this forum that it may not be all that safe there. I would really appreciate some input as there is a property there my family was /is considering. Please fell free to PM me if you prefer.

[HelperGuy]

Note that many of the streets in Ajijic are actually arroyos, turned into streets due to neighbourhood growth. You will have seen the bazillions of gallons of water that rushes down from the upper side of Ajijic, SAT, and Riberas during the rainy season. These torrents would rip apart any kind of concrete with ease: witness the egress points out of almost any neighbourhood along the carreterra; it's not simply the traffic that grinds down the concrete edges, it's the erosion caused by the water that makes it susceptible to crushing. Cobbles are easy and cheap to repair.

If anything, the right decision would have been to forget the housing requirements, and let the arroyos be arroyos.

Note also that the small garbage cans on the poles are a fairly recent addition, and a huge improvement. And they are emptied by volunteers. Chapala has always felt that Ajijic has enough people with money to take care of itself, but beyond that, overflowing cans is a sign of two things: many of the locals actually use them, instead of just tossing their garbage around, and: a lot of people are too lazy to deal with their own garbage and just stuff everything they have into these little cans, which are designed for foot traffic--not for household waste.

(I hope this post isn't so long it's boring...) Dogs. Tapatios come here and dump their dogs and cats constantly. Gringos let them run free when they leave for back north. This doesn't happen much in Joco because the tapatios main tourist area is this end, and there are far, far fewer gringos living in Joco.

[barbara habacht]

We have lived in Joco for more than 7 years.....our neighbors are Mexicans and are proud and happy. Our government, while not perfect, is very approachable and listens to suggestions....but that is because the few non Mexicans that live here aren't determined to make it like the USA.

As to crime.....we consider ourselves safer here than we were ANYWHERE in the USA.

Our prices are lower and our produce is better; our restaurants are on the boring side of the page but we are only 17km from Ajijic. We don't pay our maid as much as Maincoons does....because she doesn't know who Maincoons is.

Land prices are lower if you know where to look. Most real estate agents know little if anything about the area.
Fred

[Mainecoons]

Helper guy MOST of the streets in Ajijic are not arroyos. Much of Ajijic is sloped more than either Chapala (except for NW side) or Jocotepec (except for north side where Fred lives) and water runs down hill. There are several streets east of Seis Esquinas that actually are arroyos. That is typical Mexican construction. They don't have a lot of storm sewers here. Welcome to Mexico.

Jocotepec also has the added advantage, particularly with the road improvements that are in progress, of being a relatively short run to the upscale shopping area on Lopez Mateos Sur. Yep, Costco and Sams and Mega are definitely upscale here in Mexico.

And San Juan Cosala has some pretty good restaurants too just a few miles east of Jocotepec. Produce better? The quality of produce in general in Jalisco is better and cheaper than we had NOB. I sorta doubt there's a big difference along the lake. One of the advantages of living here--you eat better for less.

Yes, Jocotepec and Chapala are cheaper than Ajijic. So are Riberas and San Antonio. In fact they are all cheaper than Ajijic. So what?

Land prices are definitely higher in Ajijic. So are houses. There are a lot of larger houses on larger lots in Ajijic. Some folks seem to think there's something strange about the higher prices. Look in any more upscale area NOB. Everything including houses, land, shops and often even gasoline costs more. Same is true of GDL or any Mexican city. Nothing unusual about that. Prices are very high in Chula Vista, which is not in Ajijic, for the same reasons. Fancier neighborhood, bigger houses.

Ajijic has sewers as do Jocotepec and Chapala. Riberas may have them soon. I keep hearing about how those huge townhouse developments just east of Jocotepec are overloading the treatment plants. We are grateful that there are no such developments in Chapala even though it appears the area is going to have to cope with that potentially disastrous mountainside hotel/casino. At least until it washes down to the Libremiento one summer.

RV Gringo reports that power and internet are pretty reliable in Chapala. I think they are less reliable in Ajijic though improving. Our power comes from the east out of La Floresta where the many trees cause problems with the power lines during storms. I will say that the CATV has improved tremendously since we moved here. The phones and internet have always been pretty good. They finally got serious about tree trimming so the power is getting better.

And Fred, maybe you're not paying your maid enough. All of lakeside is relatively high cost compared to Mexico in general. Check how much cheaper things are on the south side of the lake.

[Alex]

They don't have trees in Joco.

[tobyjug]

All to the pros and cons and good deal come's to naught, if suddenly you find yourself living next to a " Dog House" when you thought you were living next to "Regular" folks!!!