22 replies to this topic

[ezpz]

I inquired at the ticket booth and found out that they were indeed charging more to foreigners for the discount. The elder discount admission is 90 pesos for Mexicans and 120 for foreigners, a 30 peso difference which amounts to a little over $2 USD. BFD!!!

I confirmed this with the manager who told me they had to do something with the discounts - an option was getting rid of them altogether. Times are tough and many businesses have had to make tough choices. Business has also been very slow out there partially because of the weather and the economy in general.

You can still get a half off discount by purchasing a frequent visitor discount card by paying for 10 visits up front but you get a card for 20. You have to use them within 4 months, weekends and holidays not included. No age requirement, you only need to bring ID and a foto from Farm. Guadalajara.

I asked him if this actually helped his bottom line and he said yes. Regarding the legality issue, he clarified that initial fees have to be equal for everyone. However, discounts can be structured any way a business chooses.

Please don't go out there and cause a scene over a measly $2 discount! Everyone knows the elder gringos have much more money than the elder Mexicans. For perspective, read Allyn Hunt's column in the current Guadaljara Reporter. The full article is subscription only online, so no link... He states that the Mexican government has a new sort of Social Security for people over 70 who have a birth certificate (big problem for many!) and they are given 1000 pesos every two months! That's less than $40 USD PER MONTH! That would barely keep someone in tortillas and beans. I'm sure you are not that poor.

[tobyjug]

Just a thought....in its own small way, do you think that Mexico is going the way of "Greece", giving albeit in by Gringo standards, more and more entitlements?

[geeser]

I think race or nationality discrimination is wrong, anywhere, any time! It is also illegal according to the Mexican Constitution as well as our own. If you just look the other way or go along you're part of the problem.

[Tingting]

TY, Geeser! You said it better than I could have. Yes, we can afford the BFD $2.00, but that´s not the point. Discrimination is wrong and every time you excuse it because "we" have more, then you can´t complain when the homebuilder charges you more or that fruit in the market costs twice as much, etc, etc. Treat everyone the same and you´ll build up customer loyalty.

BTW, do they charge the rich Tapatios more since "they" obviously can afford it?

[gimpychimp]

Just because someone has more money than someone else doesn't mean that they should be charged more for products and services. $2.00 is a BFD, because its the principle of the thing. When I owned my own business in Canada, I charged everyone the same price whether they were old or young, rich or poor. Canadian or immigrant. It didn't matter because I wanted them all to come back. When people realize that they are being charged more than other people for the same thing, it doesn't usually result in repeat business. I live here fulltime and I don't like being charged more than Mexicans when I spend my money. Its the principle of it, and its a very poor business practice.

[Ajijic]

Well come to the several hotsprings in SMA. The regular fee is 90 to 100 p a day and children and seniors all get the same discount dropping the price further.

No matter how many huff and puff they will still go as there is no competition that close to Ajijic.

In Mexico sadly they discriminate in many ways and often legal. This includes specifying age range for employment along with gender. And look at the number of expats stopped by traffic police for mordida ... discrimination and enabled by the expat community who go to a "cops" birthday party. geesh.

[Shira]

Poor Mexicans do not go to the balneario. It is discrimination pure and simple.

[guss]

Quibbling over $2, $10, $50 is one thing, but a line should be drawn when the difference in price runs into the hundreds or thousands. If you are being charged much more for the same product or service as someone else without any added value then it’s nothing more than an abusive practice.

In Mexico sadly they discriminate in many ways and often legal. This includes specifying age range for employment along with gender.

To be fair to Mexico, I worked in the US for a company in 1990 that would only hire African Americans if they could not find a qualified white person, illegal yes but it happened. My wife came across a study that said that most pharmaceutical reps are attractive, females are mostly over 5’8” tall, thin and blonde and of a certain age range. Having worked in the medical field my wife said this statistical anomoly was true. I knew an American who would not rent their house to women who were dependent on child support. This was illegal, but they did not want their rental income tied to a third party with no legal recourse in case of none payment. Whether sanctioned by the laws of the land or not, discrimination happens in the US and elsewhere.

G

[Jeanette]

Guss, you make good and accurate points. But the REAL question is should this kind of business practice be supported? A consumer has choices where and how to spend their money.

(on the other side of the coin, we all are happy to take advantage of those senior citizens discounts, which could also be viewed as discriminatory. I prefer to view them as a marketing incentive, like a coupon, but admit that is just a rationalization to make me feel better.)

[bdlngton]

Are you talking about the discounts a the balenario or at the hotel next door??

[Griffin]

I can't find in the Mexican Constitution where it states that foreigners cannot be charged a different price than Mexican citizens. In many areas of the Constitution it clearly states that foreigners are not equal to Mexican citizens. I guess if people are unhappy with being discriminated against in Mexico, they can always return home. I bet there are thousands of Mexicans in the U.S. who can explain to you what discrimination is really all about and it's not about being charged $2 more for swimming pools they can't afford to go to in the first place.

http://www.oas.org/j...-text-const.pdf

Individual Guarantees

Article 1. Every person in the United Mexican States shall enjoy the guarantees granted by this Constitution, which cannot be restricted or suspended except in such cases and under such conditions as are herein provided.

Article 32. Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.

[geeser]

Griffin if you can search Guadalajara Reporter archives you will find an article about the Cultura Cabanas charging gringos more and teh Comision on Derachos Humanos went after them and said it was agaiinst the constitution and put a stop to it.

[Griffin]

Griffin if you can search Guadalajara Reporter archives you will find an article about the Cultura Cabanas charging gringos more and teh Comision on Derachos Humanos went after them and said it was agaiinst the constitution and put a stop to it.

I don't know how it can be against the Constitution. The first Article states every person (Mexican) is granted the rights against discrimination. In several Articles the Constitution defines what foreigners cannot do, so if the Constitution prohibited any discrimination against foreigners, then it would not state clearly many times the discrimination that is allowed.

This person seems to explain well what is discrimination in the Constitution:

http://www.iadb.org/...cfm?thisid=3089

Article 1 of Mexico’s constitution prohibits the government and civil society from discriminating against women, people with disabilities, religious minorities, ethnic groups or those with unconventional beliefs. Mexico’s Federal Discrimination Prevention and Elimination Act develops the spirit of the constitution in light of the international legislation which, I must emphasize, is also our legislation. It obligates the State to promote and implement compensatory measures designed to reverse the social conditions that allow discrimination to continue against women, the disabled, children, the elderly and indigenous groups.

Discrimination consists of practices that harm society; these practices define the character of public and private institutions, and leave a mark on a country’s political and popular culture. They cost society dearly in a financial sense, tear apart even more the already fragile social fabric, and create an inertia that convinces the victims of discrimination that such practices are both natural and deserved.

[tobyjug]

Then I guess not giving Gringos DIF or INAPAM cards is OK, also lets cull them from IMSS..the issue is not the amount it is the principle! so you see the restaurant lunch special advertised, are these only for Mexicans....so the entrance fee into the Chilly Cook Off should have a two tier price, one for THEM and one for US....this comparison of US and THEM really pi**s me off .

[JC5000]

Back to the balenario price ...

My wife and I used to go at least once a month and enjoyed it very much. The first time we went the price was 45 pesos, so you can figure out how long we had that monthly habit. That was the full price. We didn't yet qualify for any discounts. The trip also always included a few more pesos for lunch. We stopped going regularily when they stopped giving us that 50% discount raising our cost for the two of us from 180 pesos to 240 pesos. I can afford the 240 pesos. I can even afford the extra my wife occasionally spent to go down below to the spa, and I didn't worry much about the menu prices at any of the lunch places. It wasn't about the money. It was about feeling less respected as a regular customer. We haven't gone back for 8 months. Here's my math on their business decision. Have they made an extra 480 pesos, or lost 1440 from me in the last 8 months?

I think any lakeside business that can afford to dis-respect me, or can not afford to give me equality, doesn't deserve my business.

[Griffin]

Then I guess not giving Gringos DIF or INAPAM cards is OK, also lets cull them from IMSS..the issue is not the amount it is the principle! so you see the restaurant lunch special advertised, are these only for Mexicans....so the entrance fee into the Chilly Cook Off should have a two tier price, one for THEM and one for US....this comparison of US and THEM really pi**s me off .

The point was that nothing I can find in the Mexican Constitution states that foreigners are to be treated equally and given the same rights as Mexicans. It states many times that foreigners do not have the same rights. DIF, INAPAM and IMSS are all government programs and supposedly treat all people equally. The director in Chapala is culling people from IMSS because the rules for "voluntary members" are different than for those who receive IMSS from an employer, and not because they are foreigners.

The Chili Cook Off is a private organization and can charge what it wants and that is the same with any other private organization.

It bothers me much more that employers can legally advertise that they will only hire people only in a certain age group, that is, under 33, because many people who are older need jobs and would be good employees. That bothers me a lot. Paying an extra $2 at the spa is not a big deal to me.

I am a guest in this country and I don't expect the laws to be the same as in the U.S. and Canada but I find it amazing that we are allowed in so many programs like DIF, INAPAM and IMSS.

[Malaya]

Article 1 of the Constitution seems fairly clear:

This article states that every individual in Mexico (official name, Estados Unidos Mexicanos or United Mexican States) has the rights that the Constitution gives. These rights cannot be denied and they cannot be suspended. e law. All types of discrimination whether it be for ethnic origin, national origin, gender, age, different capacities, social condition, health condition, religion, opinions, preferences, or civil state or any other which attacks human dignity and has as an objective to destroy the rights and liberties of the people are forbidden.

Or you can read the report from the UN and Mexico on discrimination:

http://www.unog.ch/8...D9?OpenDocument

[Griffin]

Griffin if you can search Guadalajara Reporter archives you will find an article about the Cultura Cabanas charging gringos more and teh Comision on Derachos Humanos went after them and said it was agaiinst the constitution and put a stop to it.

Isn't Cultura Cananas a government run entity? Government run entities are not allowed to discriminate.

Article 1 of the Constitution seems fairly clear:

This article states that every individual in Mexico (official name, Estados Unidos Mexicanos or United Mexican States) has the rights that the Constitution gives. These rights cannot be denied and they cannot be suspended. e law. All types of discrimination whether it be for ethnic origin, national origin, gender, age, different capacities, social condition, health condition, religion, opinions, preferences, or civil state or any other which attacks human dignity and has as an objective to destroy the rights and liberties of the people are forbidden.

Or you can read the report from the UN and Mexico on discrimination:

http://www.unog.ch/8...D9?OpenDocument

The Mexican Supreme Court determines what "person" or "individual" means and it doesn't mean all foreigners within Mexico because foreigners are legally denied many rights that Mexicans have which would be directly opposite of Article 1. Foreigners cannot protest, be involved in any political activities, cannot vote, cannot own certain lands outright, even naturalized they cannot hold public office, etc.

A private business giving a discount to anyone is his choice and he is not compelled to do so by the government.

Article 5. No one can be compelled to render personal services without due remuneration and without his full consent, excepting labor imposed as a penalty by the judiciary, which shall be governed by the provisions of clauses I and II of Article 123.

Mexican can be favored:

Article 32. Mexicans shall have priority over foreigners under equality of circumstances for all classes of concessions and for all employment, positions, or commissions of the Government in which the status of citizenship is not indispensable. In time of peace no foreigner can serve in the Army nor in the police or public security forces.

This is off subject but interesting and makes one wonder how people from up North get away with coming to Mexico and starting churches. I doubt any of them are getting permission from the government.

Article 130 To practice the ministry of any denomination in the United Mexican States it is necessary to be a Mexican by birth.

Permission to dedicate new places of worship open to the public must be obtained from the Secretariat of Government, with previous consent of the government of the State. There must be in every church building a representative who is responsible to the authorities for compliance with the laws on religious worship in such building, and for the objects pertaining to the worship.

[geeser]

Griffin, remember that there is nothing in the USA's constitution giving foreigners the same rights as US citizens, but you don't really think that you could discriminate and get away with it there. You wouldn't have to file a civil suit there the atty general will do it for you.

[Malaya]

Actually that's an interesting point. In Florida,if you are a foreign homeowner...i.e. snowbird, your taxes are higher than what an American would pay.

It's a law that Florida is trying to change as many foreigners would buy in this depressed housing market but won't because of the yearly tax rate on homes being double.