24 replies to this topic

[pgweeks]

Hi,

I'm wondering if people swim in Lake Chapala. We haven't been there as yet, but we're getting ready, doing our research, etc. Are there parts of the lake where people do swim and parts where they don't? Is the whole thing just off-limits? I understand that it has been quite polluted and choked with plants in the past but that restoration efforts have made some headway. Any information appreciated.
:-Paul

[hensley]

You can get in the lake but I am not going to.

[Ajijic]

I read about 2 months ago in the Guadalajara Reporter that a study concluded the children living downstream along the Río Grande de Santiago flowing out of Lake Chapala were lacking physical and psychological development based on the contents of the water.

Here is a Feb 11, 2011 aerial view of the lake.

http://www.eosnap.co...g/lake-chapala/

You can click the photo and then zoom again for a close-up.

[Mad_Max]

Hi,

I'm wondering if people swim in Lake Chapala. We haven't been there as yet, but we're getting ready, doing our research, etc. Are there parts of the lake where people do swim and parts where they don't? Is the whole thing just off-limits? I understand that it has been quite polluted and choked with plants in the past but that restoration efforts have made some headway. Any information appreciated.
:-Paul

there is a great 20 m pool in riberas - and it is definitely safe to swim in it

Lots of info floating around - that the water is safe for recreational use, the fish are safe to eat, etc etc. There are also articles about the toxic metals in the sediment - one of which is reasonably current. And new studies seem to surface frequently. And there is no agreement between the people conducting the studies.

Here is one article from March 17 - http://www.cbtelevis...hp?id=12720

With the signing of a cooperation agreement between the civil association "Heart of the Earth" and the Interdisciplinary Research Center for Integrated Regional Development Centre (IDRC) of IPN, (their) aim (is) the identification and characterization of factors affecting pollution so directly on Lake Chapala. (this means they are going to study the water)

Here is the abstract from a technical article written in 2009 and published in 2010 http://www.jmcs.org....e%20Chapala.pdf

Abstract. Heavy metals chemical speciation in Lake Chapala sediments was studied using sequential extraction to assess the mobility of potentially biotoxic metals and to elucidate their sources. Lake water quality was also studied. Results show Cd, Pb, Cr present in exchangeable and carbonate fractions indicating anthropogenic origin. An ecologic history indicates anthropogenic sources of Cd, Pb, Cr during 1960-2006. Risk Assessment Code indicates very high risk of pollution for water column due to high potential detachment of heavy metal

I think the best answer right now is - no one knows for sure. I, for one, based on the toxic metals in the sediment, would not want to swim in the lake. Plus - there are fences underwater etc -

The pool is cool tho if you like to swim

[exHawaiian]

Children splash around in the shallows, but other than fishermen, there aren't folks in the water. The gov't says it is safe, but ????? there are agricultural and industrial areas which use the inflowing rivers as their sewers.
It looks pretty, the lirio is being controlled, and Chapala even built a sandy beach. The water is used to supply vast areas of Guadalajara's population. But then, I'm an ocean person, and always found lakes too goopy on the bottom to feel comfortable.

[Jeanette]

I'm NOT interested in eating them, but how is the fishing down there? Is it worth bringing our freshwater rods and tackle with us for our summer trip?

[traderspoc]

i did the polar swim .. jan 1st 2011 in Chapala.

the water was very clean.


was in the water last week again , and it was very clear and clean

[Bisbee Gal]

Local nationals swim in the lake daily in warm weather, at the bottom of our street in Ajijic. Locals come down our street with fishing gear every dawn and again at dusk, and there are usually people fishing on the Ajijic pier and malecon, all day long. Most of the fish I've seen caught are in the 10 inch range (but see Steve Miller's great photos below, for some larger specimans).

We've been kayaking the lake for almost 3 years, which usually means getting a bit wet, getting in and out of the lake.

Coincidently, today there is a Fishing Tournament on the Ajijic malecon, sponsored by the owner of the tackle shop in Ajijic.

At 3pm today at the Ajijic pier, Antonio Pulido Cortez of Chapala smiles from ear to ear after landing this carp measuring 23+ inches. No boat or pole, just a line, hook, and weight, baited with a corn tortilla. Life is good.




Photo by Steve Miller of Ajijic

More fish caught earlier in the day.

[cedros]

People swim in and water ski on the lake. It isn't the weeds or pollution that stop me it is just that it is very murky and you can't see what is down there.

[Shira]

At the end of my street and the one east of it bathrooms were built in one case at the waters edge and in the other not far from it. In both cases I have seen the sewer? connections overflow and the fluid head into the lake. The smell is frequently awful.

[lakeheron]

I am good friends with the woman who used to be the vet at the Chapala municipal slaughterhouse. She had many responsibilities, including dealing with corpses of large animals who died in her domain. She used to tell me about the cows and horses that got buried where they died at the edge of the lake. (You have to realize that a lot of livestock live along the edge of the lake even now that it is higher.) A poignant example happened about three years ago when five cows died down the street from us, by the Riberas malecon. I called my friend who immediately did tests on the cows and discovered they had died of an anthrax-related bacterium. It was considered safer to dig holes right there at the lake edge and bury the cows rather than carry them somewhere else. So there lay buried five large decomposing bodies laden with bacterium right in the ground water by the lake. My squatter Mexican neighbor who lives across the street from us on the lake used to let her kids play in the lake all the time and occasionally joined them. She had a small cut on her foot one day and after swimming in the lake her foot became infected and ballooned to three times its size. We finally paid for her to see a doctor who told her that undoubtedly bacteria from the lake had caused her infection. Periodically a sewer in our neighborhood a few blocks from the lake overflows and guess where that lovely liquid ends up. Would I ever swim in the lake knowing what I know? Never.

[Betsy]

I am good friends with the woman who used to be the vet at the Chapala municipal slaughterhouse. She had many responsibilities, including dealing with corpses of large animals who died in her domain. She used to tell me about the cows and horses that got buried where they died at the edge of the lake. (You have to realize that a lot of livestock live along the edge of the lake even now that it is higher.) A poignant example happened about three years ago when five cows died down the street from us, by the Riberas malecon. I called my friend who immediately did tests on the cows and discovered they had died of an anthrax-related bacterium. It was considered safer to dig holes right there at the lake edge and bury the cows rather than carry them somewhere else. So there lay buried five large decomposing bodies laden with bacterium right in the ground water by the lake. My squatter Mexican neighbor who lives across the street from us on the lake used to let her kids play in the lake all the time and occasionally joined them. She had a small cut on her foot one day and after swimming in the lake her foot became infected and ballooned to three times its size. We finally paid for her to see a doctor who told her that undoubtedly bacteria from the lake had caused her infection. Periodically a sewer in our neighborhood a few blocks from the lake overflows and guess where that lovely liquid ends up. Would I ever swim in the lake knowing what I know? Never.

Now that is something to think about....I have taken a quick dunk in the water just to cool off when out on the kayaks, but that was an act of desperation. I don't believe the reports that it is safe to swim in no matter what the reports say.

Also.... I never give my pets tap water, the two I brought with me , a dog and a cat both got tumors and died. I am convinced it was the tap water I was giving them. However, the horses never developed any problems.

Love the fish pics! Great story too....I wish more people would post photos

[Ajijic]

We just hope the restaurants are not selling fish from the lake. One restaurant had a buffet and I am quite sure from the low price and smell of the fish it came from the lake.

[lakeview]

We went to an LCS Sunday morning presentation sometime ago given by a US pro who had taken samples all around the lake. His conclusion was that the lake was cleaner than most lakes NOB and 3 or 4 times cleaner than the sea off the Californian coast.

Was he wrong, or has something changed? Here is a video clip :-

Dr Todd Strong LCS

We used Chapala lake last year jet-skiing and wakeboarding on quite a few weekends and had a great time. Last year we also went to Lake Mead CA for a weekend and there were dead fish everywhere which was sort of off putting but didn't seem to deter anyone using it.

[lakeheron]

We went to an LCS Sunday morning presentation some time ago given by a US pro who had taken samples all around the lake. His conclusion was that the lake was cleaner than most lakes NOB and 10 times (or was it 100 times) cleaner than the sea off the Californian coast.

Was he wrong, or has something changed?

We used Chapala lake last year jet-skiing and wakeboarding on quite a few weekends and had a great time. Last year we also went to Lake Mead CA for a weekend and there were dead fish everywhere which was sort of off putting but didn't seem to deter anyone using it.

I think his tests were fine as far as they went. Money is so limited for thorough and on-going testing. And as I recall he didn't test the mud and sediment on the bottom of the lake. I guess I trust my own eyes and experience more than the tests.

[paradise]

over the years a lot of people have drown in the lake.... there are un seen dangers below the water line.... old fences/sticks/etc people have gotten caught up on something in the water and drowned.... i would be very carefull even water skiing/etc.

[saege007]

We went to an LCS Sunday morning presentation sometime ago given by a US pro who had taken samples all around the lake. His conclusion was that the lake was cleaner than most lakes NOB and 3 or 4 times cleaner than the sea off the Californian coast.

Was he wrong, or has something changed? Here is a video clip :-

Dr Todd Strong LCS

We used Chapala lake last year jet-skiing and wakeboarding on quite a few weekends and had a great time. Last year we also went to Lake Mead CA for a weekend and there were dead fish everywhere which was sort of off putting but didn't seem to deter anyone using it.

Having come from Minnesota, land of 10,000 lakes, I'd say this lake is cleaner than most of the lakes we swam in there. Lake swimming is of course different than ocean or pool swimming and not for everyone. Mostly I stay by the shoreline, I'm not sure I'd go out past waist deep in something you can't see very far in.

[Mad_Max]

Hi,

I'm wondering if people swim in Lake Chapala. We haven't been there as yet, but we're getting ready, doing our research, etc. Are there parts of the lake where people do swim and parts where they don't? Is the whole thing just off-limits? I understand that it has been quite polluted and choked with plants in the past but that restoration efforts have made some headway. Any information appreciated.
:-Paul

So I think your question is - is the lake considered safe for recreational use.

So my question is - what does that mean. And in checking the website of the World Heath Organization, they do have guidelines for safe recreational water environments. And at this time, those goals are not being met.

Here is their introduction: http://www.who.int/w...m/en/index.html

This volume of the Guidelines for Safe Recreational Water Environments describes the present state of knowledge regarding the impact of recreational use of coastal and freshwater environments upon the health of users — specifically, leading to drowning and injury, exposure to cold, heat and sunlight, water quality (especially exposure to water contaminated by sewage, but also exposure to pathogenic microorganisms indigenous to recreational water), contamination of beach sand, exposure to algae and their products, exposure to chemical and physical agents, and dangerous aquatic organisms. As well, control and monitoring of the hazards associated with these environments are discussed.

So let's look what WHO says about hazards.

Physical hazards should first be removed or reduced if possible, or measures should be taken to prevent or reduce human exposure. Physical hazards that cannot be completely dealt with in this way should be the subject of additional preventive or remedial measures. These include drowning prevention programmes, public information and warnings (such as signs, flags and general education and awareness raising), the provision of effective lifeguard supervision and rescue services, and the establishment of different recreation zones for different recreational activities using lines, buoys and markers.

We know that is not in place. And we also know there are physical hazards in the lake - unmarked.

Here are their comments about

The initial classification of a recreational water environment is based upon the combination of evidence for the degree of influence of (human) faecal material (by sanitary inspection of beach and water catchment) alongside counts of suitable faecal index bacteria (a microbial quality assessment). Information to be collected during sanitary inspections should cover at least the three most important sources of human faecal contamination of recreational water environments for public health purposes: sewage; riverine discharges (where the river is a receiving water for sewage discharges and either is used directly for recreation or discharges near a coastal or lake area used for recreation); and bather contamination, including excreta. Where human inputs are minimal, investigation of animal faecal inputs should be explored.

In the microbial water quality assessment, the sampling programme should be representative of the range of conditions in the recreational water environment while it is being used. An important issue is that of collecting sufficient numbers of samples so as to make an appropriate estimation of the likely densities to which recreational water users are exposed. The precision of the estimate of the 95th percentile is higher when sample numbers are increased. The number of results available can be increased significantly by pooling data from multiple years, unless there is reason to believe that local (pollution) conditions have changed. For practical purposes, data on at least 100 samples from a 5-year period and a rolling 5-year data set can be used for microbial water quality assessment purposes.


The outputs from the sanitary inspection and the microbial water quality assessment can be combined to give a five-level classification for recreational water environments — very good, good, fair, poor and very poor. Following initial classification, it is proposed that all categories of recreational water environment would be subject to an annual sanitary inspection (to determine whether pollution sources have changed) and continued water quality monitoring.


Another component of the assessment of a recreational water environment is the possible "upgrading" of a recreational water environment if a significant change in management reduces human exposure to microbial risk. (This continues for several pages)

Who recommends 100 samples from a 5 year period and a rolling 5 year data set. We know this is not in place.

WHO discusses water turbity

Water at swimming areas should ideally be clear enough for users to estimate depth, to see subsurface hazards easily and to detect the submerged bodies of swimmers or divers who may be in difficulty.

Athough I haven't been swimming, I have been on a boat - and the water wasn't clear at all.


WHO discusses chemical contaminants

Chemical contaminants can enter surface waters or be deposited on beaches from both natural and anthropogenic sources. Exposure is one of the key issues in determining the risk of toxic effects from chemicals in recreational waters. The form of recreational activity will therefore play a significant role. Routes of exposure will be direct surface contact, including skin, eyes and mucous membranes, inhalation and ingestion. In assessing the risk from a particular contaminant, the frequency, extent and likelihood of exposure are crucial parts of the evaluation.

At least one article has been published recently - peer reviewed in a scientific magazine - about the toxins in the sediments.

WHO says this about PH levels

pH has a direct impact on the recreational uses of water only at very low or very high pH values. Under these circumstances, it may contribute to irritation of the skin and eyes.

I have no idea what this is - but did hear it mentioned a few months back - I think it was low. How low? Where measured? Don't know.

WHO has published guidelines for good practices

WHO has developed a manual based upon a framework "Code of Good Practice for Recreational Water Monitoring." This Code comprises a series of statements of principle or objectives that, if adhered to, would lead to the design and implementation of a monitoring programme of scientific credibility

Wonder if any lakeside official has read these!!! At this time, to my knowledge, no one is "monitoring" the recreational status for this 45+ mile lake which is encompassed by two states. The funding simply is not there, and I doubt that it is a priority for the two states that would be involved at this time.
So I think it is - swim at your own risk. Most of us chose not to. You can ignore the WHO guidelines - but hey - they put a lot of time and thought into what constitutes safe for recreational use. And based on the Lake's history - and the land use around the lake which will give heavy runoff of pesticides and insecticides - combined with the physical hazards, toxic sediment, water turbity (yes, at one time it was clear) and sewage dumping and runoff, there definitely is going to be risks.

[lakeview]

Old Post, with new update from an article by Dr Todd D Strong - engineer.

In the Lake Chapala Review, 15th/April/2011, Volume 12, Issue 3, Page 39.

Summary.

1. The water: Lake Chapala's water is clean

2. Bacteria: Three years of testing shows bacteria content is 1/4 of international limits for recreational use.

3. Fish: They are safe to eat. Mercury in Lake Chapala's Carp is about the same as a can of Tuna sold in the US.

4. Chemicals: Lead,arsenic,cadmium and chromium are at low levels.

5. Lerma river: Water flowing into the lake from this river is good quality.

Here is most of the article. [Truths About Lake Chapala]

Hint. To make it easier to read the attachment you can zoom a webpage in and out by simultaneously holding down the Ctrl key and rotating the mouse wheel. Ctrl -, Ctrl + works the same.

[Mad_Max]

Old Post, with new update from an article by Dr Todd D Strong - engineer.

In the Lake Chapala Review, 15th/April/2011, Volume 12, Issue 3, Page 39.

Summary.

1. The water: Lake Chapala's water is clean

2. Bacteria: Three years of testing shows bacteria content is 1/4 of international limits for recreational use.

3. Fish: They are safe to eat. Mercury in Lake Chapala's Carp is about the same as a can of Tuna sold in the US.

4. Chemicals: Lead,arsenic,cadmium and chromium are at low levels.

4. Lerma river: Water flowing into the lake from this river is good quality.

Here is most of the article. [Truths About Lake Chapala]

Hint. To make it easier to read the attachment you can zoom a webpage in and out by simultaneously holding down the Ctrl key and rotating the mouse wheel. Ctrl -, Ctrl + works the same.

If you want to swim in the lake, I would suggest you do your own research - as the facts do not support that work has been done or is being done to consider the lake safe for recreational swimming based on Mexico's standards. Testing for bacteria is one small piece of what qualifies as safe for swimming. I know articles have been published - and I just finished fact checking one - and it failed.

Only a few days ago, 3 people drowned in the lake - waves sunk the boat - they were 10 meters from shore. This is a shallow lake and can be treacherous.