Kiko Posted June 2, 2010 Report Posted June 2, 2010 I've been thinking about some exceptions lately to Spanish, for example,, el tequila or el problema. I got into an discussion with a good Mexican friend about these exceptions and he brought this up: One policeman is referred to as "El Policia", where as the police organization or a group of policemen would be referred to as "La Policia." What say the local native experts here?
jimmiller Posted June 2, 2010 Report Posted June 2, 2010 I've been thinking about some exceptions lately to Spanish, for example,, el tequila or el problema. I got into an discussion with a good Mexican friend about these exceptions and he brought this up: One policeman is referred to as "El Policia", where as the police organization or a group of policemen would be referred to as "La Policia." What say the local native experts here? My Mexican spouse confirms you are correct in all cases. When I began to take classes in Spanish many years ago,I was assured that Spanish is simple,that nouns ending in "A" are feminine and go with "La" and nouns ending in "O" are masculine and go with "El". Then I began to learn about exceptions. Today, I'm sure there are more exceptions than non. They should make the exceptions the rule,and the rule the exception. IMHO. Over the years I've studied French and German in addition to Spanish. I do believe Spanish has many more exceptions.
More Liana Posted June 4, 2010 Report Posted June 4, 2010 I've been thinking about some exceptions lately to Spanish, for example,, el tequila or el problema. I got into an discussion with a good Mexican friend about these exceptions and he brought this up: One policeman is referred to as "El Policia", where as the police organization or a group of policemen would be referred to as "La Policia." What say the local native experts here? El tequila refers back to 'licor'--el licor tequila. El problema, like many other nouns with similar spellings (el sistema, el mapa, el síntoma, etc) are words that have Greek rather than Latin origins. El día is another of those, but without the 'm'. La mano, but las manitas in the diminutive. El policia/la policia is just one of those things you have to remember. Spanish is indeed a simple language when you are beginning to study it, but a very complex, deep, and broad language as you truly learn it.
tio copas Posted June 20, 2010 Report Posted June 20, 2010 More examples: la (ciudad) capital/ el (dinero) capital.....changes the word's meaning la modelo (mujer)/ el modelo (hombre).....neutral noun, article denotes gender la dentista (mujer)/ el dentista (hombre).....same as above Then you have the word papa. The article used makes all of the difference in the world to a Catholic. And words that begin with the letter 'a' and have a stressed first syllable like agua, alma etc. They use 'el' in the singular but 'las' en the plural.
phxfunguy Posted January 4, 2012 Report Posted January 4, 2012 El tequila refers back to 'licor'--el licor tequila. El problema, like many other nouns with similar spellings (el sistema, el mapa, el síntoma, etc) are words that have Greek rather than Latin origins. El día is another of those, but without the 'm'. La mano, but las manitas in the diminutive. El policia/la policia is just one of those things you have to remember. Spanish is indeed a simple language when you are beginning to study it, but a very complex, deep, and broad language as you truly learn it. Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall learning that the Greek root words that seem to be gender exceptions in Spanish (masculine -a endings) are because the original word in Greek was masculine. Other Greek roots produced words that evolved into Spanish words that conformed to the expected gender endings, e.g., el oftalmólogo, la oftalmología, or were already feminine with an -a ending in Greek like alumna. Likewise la mano derives from manus in Latin which is feminine. French has the same exception in that hand is la main and you would expect it to be masculine with a closed ending like -in. La mana, I believe, is manna or bread from heaven.
More Liana Posted January 4, 2012 Report Posted January 4, 2012 Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall learning that the Greek root words that seem to be gender exceptions in Spanish (masculine -a endings) are because the original word in Greek was masculine. Other Greek roots produced words that evolved into Spanish words that conformed to the expected gender endings, e.g., el oftalmólogo, la oftalmología, or were already feminine with an -a ending in Greek like alumna. Likewise la mano derives from manus in Latin which is feminine. French has the same exception in that hand is la main and you would expect it to be masculine with a closed ending like -in. La mana, I believe, is manna or bread from heaven. Read here: http://www.e-spanyol.hu/en/grammar/gender.php And manna, as in manna from heaven, is la maná.
bmh Posted January 4, 2012 Report Posted January 4, 2012 Over the years I've studied French and German in addition to Spanish. I do believe Spanish has many more exceptions. Your study of French must have been superficial, we have at least as many if not more exceptions than Spanish as we also have all the exceptions on spelling since French is not phonetic like Spanish. L exception confirme la regle. In other words there are no rules if exceptions do not exist. Exceptions are a true nightmare we have to memorize for years when we are kids.
RVGRINGO Posted January 4, 2012 Report Posted January 4, 2012 For some 700 years, prior to the 'conquistadores' arrival in Mexico, Spain was dominated by the Moors and Arabic culture/language. Much of Spanish is, therefore, heavily influenced by Arabic. Even 'Guadalajara' is from the Arabic language as is a large number of words which begin with 'al'.
carib Posted January 5, 2012 Report Posted January 5, 2012 Read here: http://www.e-spanyol...mmar/gender.php And manna, as in manna from heaven, is la maná. It is not la mana, it is el mana. Se dice Y callo el mana del cielo". Es incorrecto decir; Y callo la mana del cielo. Perdonen la falta de acentuacion en las palabras callo y mana pues mi teclado es para Ingles. Ambas palabras son agudas y el enfasis de la acentuacion cae en la ultima silaba.
kbleitch Posted January 5, 2012 Report Posted January 5, 2012 Just an FYI for those of you who wish to use the accent, tilde, ¿, ¡, etc., in español, but believe you can't because you have un teclado para inglés: If you are using a PC and have a number keypad on the right side of your teclado: ALTERNATE CHARACTERS - on a PC To get the special characters when typing in español.... 1. hold down the "alt" key with your left hand and 2. type the number indicated on the number keypad with your right hand alt 160 á alt 164 ñ alt 130 é alt 161 í alt 144 É alt 162 ó alt 168 ¿ alt 163 ú alt 173 ¡ This process is even easier with a Mac. Just press and hold down the "option" key while typing the letter "e," followed by the vowel you wish to accent; option key + "n" followed by n for ñ, option key + ! for ¡, option key + shift ? for ¿. I learned the PC alternate character codes many years ago, so for me they are just another memorized keystroke series while I touch type. Now I am pretty much exclusively a Mac user, but just like riding a bike, there's some things you just never forget. And, just because I can't resist..... Yes, maná is a masculine-gendered noun: el maná. However, the quote should read "Y cayó el maná del cielo," with the correct spelling of the third person preterite of caer being cayó.
phxfunguy Posted January 6, 2012 Report Posted January 6, 2012 Read here: http://www.e-spanyol...mmar/gender.php And manna, as in manna from heaven, is la maná. Thanks, that is a great link with a comprehensive listing and grouping of exceptions, useful to have as a reference! And thank you others for the clarification of maná and about it being masculine. I did some research further and found out that it is invariable, doesn't take a plural as it's a collective noun and that it originated from Hebrew man via Late Latin manna the into OE and the earlier forms of the Romance languages, I presume. I'm not a Hebrew scholar, but I believe man is likely masculine which is likely how it came down into Spanish as masculine.
julibaga Posted January 24, 2012 Report Posted January 24, 2012 Otra alternativa. Alt+0193 = Á Alt+0225 = á Alt+0201 = É Alt+0233 = é Alt+0205 = Í Alt+0237 = í Alt+0211 = Ó Alt+0243 = ó Alt+0218 = Ú Alt+0250 = ú Alt+0209 = Ñ Alt+0241 = ñ Alt+0161 = ¡ Alt+0191 = ¿
Varna Posted February 15, 2012 Report Posted February 15, 2012 Hello, What I usually use to accent the vowels, is this trick: Just press the Alt key while pressing the apostrophe or single quote (press both keys at the same time) Release them and then just press the vowel you want accented. Examples: (Alt + ' )+ a= á (use with any vowel) (Alt + ' ) + (Shift + a) = Á (use with any vowel) (Alt + Shift + ~) + n = ñ (Alt + Shift + ~) + (shift + n) = Ñ With this you don't have to memorize any numbers, I hope it helps.
RVGRINGO Posted February 16, 2012 Report Posted February 16, 2012 Those hints are only for PCs. It is much easier with a Mac, as the common accents have similar shortcuts, but there is a 'Special Characters' box under 'EDIT', which includes all accented Latin letters, math symbols, etc.
Toltepeceno Posted February 18, 2012 Report Posted February 18, 2012 There used to be a program for pc's called allchars that did spanish as well as other language characters. It started unseen with windows and you just hit control then 2 other keys for the character. It might still be around. Here it is if anyone is interrested: http://allchars.zwolnet.com/i/o/sourceforge-download.html It has pretty much everything including currency symbols. I just installed on windows 7 64 bit and it works fine. ñ I just typed that depressing and letting up the control, then the ~ and n. € © ® ÷ ‡ ? ¿
bdlngton Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 It is not la mana, it is el mana. Se dice Y callo el mana del cielo". Es incorrecto decir; Y callo la mana del cielo. Perdonen la falta de acentuacion en las palabras callo y mana pues mi teclado es para Ingles. Ambas palabras son agudas y el enfasis de la acentuacion cae en la ultima silaba. Correction: it is cayo--accent on the o, from caer, not callo (accent on the o), from callar.
kbleitch Posted February 29, 2012 Report Posted February 29, 2012 bdington: see last line, post #10 But repetition is good!!!
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