Xcalaker Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 xcalaker, this is getting very political. i am in your corner, but please dont get this thread locked. thanks. Bennie, you're are right. I'll stand down but I still am very curious why some folks think these 'stops' are a violation of 'certain rights' or denial of 'civil liberties'. I don't get it.. Just curious that's all. I travel a lot in Mexico (by car) and get stopped for ID's , etc. all the time. Doesn't bother me at all. Makes me think someone is 'on top of things'. Call me weird I guess.
More Liana Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Driving While Black. It's also Driving While Brown. I.e., Mexican. And what the policeman undoubtedly saw first was the Mexican license plate.
Mainecoons Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 I have gotten stopped here a number of times because I am a gringo, been robbed once by rogue cops and probably attempted once again just last week by the Tonala cops who stalk the GDL bypass The Mexican cops are not stopping old people in nondescript cars because they're concerned about national security, they're stopping me because I'm obviously a foreigner and maybe to try and get mordida or just give a gringo a bad time. In some places NOB Mexicans get hassled regularly too. As far as I'm concerned neither is OK but both should be expected, it is just the way some cops are. Better get used to it, government everywhere is stomping on basic rights these days.
Bill Phillips Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Seems to me that the same thing happens in Mexico.... Transitos stopping NOB vehicles "just cuz..." Even a better chance if the driver is a female and blonde. Just sayin....
alex45920 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Bennie, you're are right. I'll stand down but I still am very curious why some folks think these 'stops' are a violation of 'certain rights' or denial of 'civil liberties'. I don't get it.. Just curious that's all. There's a long established concept in American jurisprudence that the police must have "probable cause" to make an arrest or, at least, "reasonable suspicion" to detain and question people. A traffic stop must meet that criteria to be legitimate. Simply having out-of-state or out-of-country license plates does not meet that criteria. The recent "show me your papers" law in Arizona states exactly that. The officer must have "reasonable suspicion" that the person is there illegally before he can ask them to prove their immigration status. That is why that part of the law was upheld by the Supreme Court while the rest of the law was declared unconstitutional.
Guest bigd Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 What if the heading on this post were" Being stopped in Mexico simply because you are a gringo" what then?
Intercasa Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Maybe they thought two old gringos stole some Mexicans car?
cookj5 Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 Please tell me how a State law enforcement officer who wants to know your legal residency status is violating your civil liberties? According to a recent NYTimes article about the Supreme Court decision of the Arizona law, state officials can "determine the immigration status of anyone they stop or arrest if they have reason to suspect that the individual might be in the country illegally." http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/26/us/supreme-court-rejects-part-of-arizona-immigration-law.html?ref=arizonaimmigrationlawsb1070&_r=0 In other words, they must have probable cause to suspect you are there illegally, after they stop or arrest you for some other reason. States can't just "give themselves the power to know who is in their state." Further, they can't, as someone else suggested is the case, just "stop anyone they feel like to ask to see proof of legal residency." "Just cause" ain't the same as "just 'cuz" Further, net illegal Immigration is at the lowest levels in 40 years, according to a study by the Pew Research Center. Net illegal immigration is close to zero, meaning the numbers coming over the border illegally are nearly equal to the numbers going back. Some credit for this must be given to the 5-fold increase in federal Border Patrol agents since 1992 (from 3,555 then to 18,506 in 2011). Such an expansion hardly represents the US government simply standing back and doing nothing. http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/13/politics/fact-check-immigration However, I suspect the most important factor is the souring of the US economy after 2008, and the continuing improvement of the Mexico economy during the same period. The best and most effective thing the US can do to limit illegal immigration from Mexico is to help Mexico improve its economy in any way possible. Give Mexicans a reason to stay home and they will, and many others will return.
Xcalaker Posted May 9, 2013 Report Posted May 9, 2013 There's a long established concept in American jurisprudence that the police must have "probable cause" to make an arrest or, at least, "reasonable suspicion" to detain and question people. A traffic stop must meet that criteria to be legitimate. Simply having out-of-state or out-of-country license plates does not meet that criteria. The recent "show me your papers" law in Arizona states exactly that. The officer must have "reasonable suspicion" that the person is there illegally before he can ask them to prove their immigration status. That is why that part of the law was upheld by the Supreme Court while the rest of the law was declared unconstitutional. Alex, I think we are mixing apples and oranges here. While my earlier posts appear to suggest I think Arizona should have the right to inquire on anybody's immigration status (and I personally still believe Arizona should) but that is much different than simply asking someone to identify themselves. I don't think asking for ID is really 'detaining' or 'question(ing) people'. The OP didn't really say anything about showing any immigration documents.
contrarian Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 It is reassuring to know that the angel-density problem isn't dead. So, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
bennie Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 1) the OP did not give the entire story. they were stopped, than what? we are all speculating. #2) i dont know for sure if a US policeman "has" to give a reason. (they sometimes just stop, then let you go). if the law says they "have" to state the reason, then the ACLU would be working around the clock. if i was a policeman i would say, "just looking for someone, my mistake". dont confront police anywhere. (unless you are very polite AND know what you are doing like mainecoones). #3) xcalaker, we are not talking about immigration & civil rights. we can discuss, only IF the OP was asked to show that document. it is still an assumption that it was profiling. #3) i like spencers theory: 2 old gringos stealing a mexican car. i wonder of the police asked to see their license. the plot thickens.....
satnrose Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 Keep in mind Alabama passed an anti immigration law said to be tougher than Arizona. I believe it passed in 2011,and has been challenged by just about everyone who normally challeges these laws. Possible there have been revisions, but I haven't followed it. What that suggests to me, because the OP was driving with Mexican plates, they sure didn't hear these words as they drove off-- "Ya'll come back now, here?"
alex45920 Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 Maybe they thought two old gringos stole some Mexicans car? Thanks for the laugh Spencer.
Juan de Uruguay Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) has labeled the zone one hundred miles for the edge of our nation’s border a “Constitution free” zone. The Department of Homeland Security considered this area to be a “reasonable distance” from the border and in that area they apparently have the right to perform searches without warrants, probable cause, reasonable suspicion, and without any stated justification whatsoever, under the border search exception.
John Shrall Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 After moving to Birmingham Alabama in 1978 I was pulled over because my car had Indiana plates. They were very suspicious of Yankees and at that time they considered people living in Huntsville AL Yankees. I've driven back to the US twice since acquiring a Mexican plated car and quite frankly I'm surprised I wasn't stopped for no reason at all. Not a big deal IMHO.
CocinaMod Posted May 10, 2013 Report Posted May 10, 2013 5 hours and 40 posts before it gets locked down. A new record maybe.
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