Dogs at the Ajijic park

[gringal]

The problem is not the bags, nor the dogs, it is the owners.

Absolutely true. Always has been. This includes the owners who abandon their dogs when they leave town; the owners who have the leash attached to their arms instead of to their dogs; the owners who won't stoop to pick up the poop and anyone else who thinks so much more of him/herself than of where their rights end and their fellow humans' begin.

[ChrisB]

We give our bags to the bathroom attendants to sell. We will ask hector if he can get at least one of them at the park early to sell bags. We'll bey them a roll if needed. Their incentive is that they keep the money.

On another point, the Advisory committee is looking into a project to build a security camera system tied into the police station. The objective is mainly for night security on the malecon and plaza. I suppose the tapes could be reviewed for issuing fines to those who do not pickup? They do it with speeding tickets etc.

Maybe just the presence of the cameras would help. I've read about a town up north where the police chief posts tape of offenders on facebook. How about that?

[Ginger]

Pictures could be taken of the offending owners & a wall of shame put up with the pictures.

[Xena]

_{As for the park being "off-leash" I think there is the law and there is the practice. As with other laws here, this one is ignored by some members of the public and the violations overlooked by the government. However, the law is still on the books and if the problem continues (or grows worse) suddenly the law will be enforced and people will be wondering why.}

_{(Do not know what happened to the font size. I tried to change it but nothing happens)}

[R2D2]

IMHO .

- Install signs both in English and Spanish : All dogs must be on a leash and pick up after your dog.

- Enforce the policy with fines.

I am against banning dogs on the malecon, since I love to walk with my dogs in the morning and I am a responsible owner.

[gringal]

_{As for the park being "off-leash" I think there is the law and there is the practice. As with other laws here, this one is ignored by some members of the public and the violations overlooked by the government. However, the law is still on the books and if the problem continues (or grows worse) suddenly the law will be enforced and people will be wondering why.}

Try to imagine the level of whine if the leash law were enforced here. Tickets? Mordida? Ohmyohmy!

[tomgates]

I am on the Malecon most every day and there numerous street dogs down there, mostly the larger ones, that would have larger deposits. I have never seen anyone walking a dog that doesn't pick up after their dog.

[Bunyan]

O.k. - I'm confused (not an abnormal state). If I'm the kind of person who picks up after my dog, I'm likely going to have a bag or two with me. If I'm the kind of person who does not pick up after my dog, am I going to search out and pay 2 pesos for a bag to not do it with? I'm all for folks making a couple of pesos whenever they can - heck, I'd sell the bags if I thought it would do any good. I don't get it.

Adding to the confusion, there are not enough police to enforce leash laws or write tickets, there are probably more stray dogs than 'owned' dogs with no place for them to be taken and no way to control them (I know there are considerable efforts aimed at neutering). Nobody is willing to euthanize. I don't know.

[bdlngton]

I think Hensley's point is that if they don't care about living in their homes with the poop and smell (urine on concrete is the worst!) then why would they care at all about public places. Are these people typical? Hard to say but quite possibly so. I do think it's reasonable of ChrisB to bring this to our attention so that we are aware and at least we make the effort to pick up after our dogs in public places, like the park at the malecon. You may not be able to solve all of the problem but you have to start somewhere.

Many of the "street" dogs actually have homes but are allowed to roam free exposing them to many things, like being hit by a car, as well as allowing them to poop and pee wherever they want. Rounding up all the "street" dogs and euthanizing them (often using inhumane methods) is not the answer to the street dog problem.

The answer to all of this is education.

[RVGRINGO]

Many years ago, the problem was controlled by the local police with .22 rifles late at night. Sad for the dogs, and we knew several very friendly street dogs when we lived in Ajijic. They suddenly vanished and their absence made us sad.

Now, this insane discussion makes us shake our heads. Most came here for a sense of adventure and freedom from NoB situations, but now want to recreate them here. Ajijic is not the USA, it is a Mexican town. Get used to it!

[purplebeads]

Is there a legal body who is suppose to enforce the leash law and pick up? Could Hector arrange to have an early morning watch and catch and fine these people? Maybe on different days. I know a well known person in this community who thinks she is very clever and she brags that she lets her dog out and it always comes back ( after taking care of business). This person is perfectly capable of walking her dog or cleaning up in her own yard. I cannot post her comments back to me on the web board.

[gringal]

I think Hensley's point is that if they don't care about living in their homes with the poop and smell (urine on concrete is the worst!) then why would they care at all about public places. Are these people typical? Hard to say but quite possibly so. I do think it's reasonable of ChrisB to bring this to our attention so that we are aware and at least we make the effort to pick up after our dogs in public places, like the park at the malecon. You may not be able to solve all of the problem but you have to start somewhere.

Many of the "street" dogs actually have homes but are allowed to roam free exposing them to many things, like being hit by a car, as well as allowing them to poop and pee wherever they want. Rounding up all the "street" dogs and euthanizing them (often using inhumane methods) is not the answer to the street dog problem.

The answer to all of this is education.

Rounding up all the "street" dogs and euthanizing them (often using inhumane methods) is not the answer to the street dog problem.

So, what is the answer? "Education" ?? Whose education? There are some well educated people who come here as visitors and leave their poor temporary pets to fend for themselves. There are others who know better and just don't care. What would be the humane way to approach the street dog problem, in your opinion?

[Ginger]

I have to agree with RVGringo on this. I don't know that there's a long term solution that's humane. Unless someone can be deputized to patrol & write tickets/fines but I've never heard of that happening here.

[ChrisB]

Again, we're not looking for the "ultimate solution" just to make things better as we are able. keep it light , love life, and have fun. That's an order!!!

[gringal]

Don't mind me with the insistence on logic, but RV's post sounds like it's mixing apples and oranges. The street dog issue used to be solved by the Mexican police with rifles.

That is what was.

Therefore, the sense of adventure and freedom here that some people want to change means what? Pretending the problem they used to address with rifles doesn't exist?

I'll be blunt and heartless, with humane overtones: Street dogs: No rifles. Humane euthanasia. Dogs with owners: Enforce the leash law. Fines for no poop pickup.

Back where I came from in the Mother Country : Official dog catcher; humane euthanasia. Free off leash dog park sponsored partly by pet owners: partly by the city. Everybody (well almost) was happy. People appreciated it enough to pick up the poop. Free bags for those who didn't bring them.

[Bourbonman]

What is the difference between a "Street dog" and any dog that is not on a leash? I understand that Jalisco has a Leash Law, but like most laws, they only serve the purpose intended if enforced.

If a Human deposited his excrement on the sidewalk, what would happen to him? We all know the answer, "Humans deserve to be

locked up & pay a big fine"!

But, there are so many people in defense of doing anything about dogs, the situation remains the same, or is getting worse because nothing is done about the problem. Stray dogs ("not on a leash under control of the owner"), should be removed from the

punlic domain.

[Candy]

Mainecoons.

.I can tell you that there are for sure street dogs in San Miguel - too many of them. Ecologia does pick them up and euthanize them after a short five days. These could be pets of people who just let them out and if they're not claimed within the five days they are killed. Just take a walk down Canal towards the bus station and see the starving street dogs. It is a shame. Many people actually carry food with them to feed the street dogs in San Miguel. And there is also dog poop on the streets...many store owners wash the streets down in front of their stores regularly to get rid of it. I love San Miguel but it is a friggin shame the way the dogs are treated there and here.

[the walkers]

We give our bags to the bathroom attendants to sell. We will ask hector if he can get at least one of them at the park early to sell bags. We'll bey them a roll if needed. Their incentive is that they keep the money.

On another point, the Advisory committee is looking into a project to build a security camera system tied into the police station. The objective is mainly for night security on the malecon and plaza. I suppose the tapes could be reviewed for issuing fines to those who do not pickup? They do it with speeding tickets etc.

Maybe just the presence of the cameras would help. I've read about a town up north where the police chief posts tape of offenders on facebook. How about that?

oh great, welcome to the police state. all to save us from some dog poop. we certainly don't need to gringofy lakeside any further, making it more like the nanny state we left. we are not dog owners, but we appreciate the mexican style of letting animals be animals and have their own society. do we envy their freedom? we watch where we walk and take responsibility for our own clean shoes, thank you....

[the walkers]

We give our bags to the bathroom attendants to sell. We will ask hector if he can get at least one of them at the park early to sell bags. We'll bey them a roll if needed. Their incentive is that they keep the money.

On another point, the Advisory committee is looking into a project to build a security camera system tied into the police station. The objective is mainly for night security on the malecon and plaza. I suppose the tapes could be reviewed for issuing fines to those who do not pickup? They do it with speeding tickets etc.

Maybe just the presence of the cameras would help. I've read about a town up north where the police chief posts tape of offenders on facebook. How about that?

oh great, welcome to the police state. all to save us from some dog poop. we certainly don't need to gringofy lakeside any further, making it more like the nanny state we left. we are not dog owners, but we appreciate the mexican style of letting animals be animals and have their own society. do we envy their freedom? we watch where we walk and take responsibility for our own clean shoes, thank you....

[ChrisB]

I have seen at least some of the mexicans who used to be our worst offenders picking up. They are adjusting, just need example, time and reminders. Some of our newbees need to learn and a few of our old timers need to get the message, just that.

[nopalesflower]

If each dog owner would agree to set an example it would go a long way toward encouraging others to do the same. And dog owners should not let their dogs off leash. Witness the number of lost dogs posted on this web board. If dogs are leashed and kept inside the walls of the garden/house there would be less sadness in having a beloved pet killed, kidnapped or lost.

[Mainecoons]

First off, I want to apologize to the group. I allowed someone to get my goat and I did not make it plain as to what I was responding to when my goat got gotten.

Although I don't think Hensley's post about her bad neighbors in Mirasol had a lot to do with the topic of dog mess on the Ajijic Malecon and what to do with it, that wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to this:

Time to move to San Miguel since it is so much better.

I didn't make it clear that I was addressing that, I shouldn't have taken the bait anyway, and I do apologize to Hensley for thinking I was responding to her post. And to the rest of you for taking the bait. My response was rude.

The reason I asked the question about San Miguel was as I stated. I'm wondering if a community that is similar to ours in many ways has developed a response to the problem. The answer seems to be yes and no. That is what I was looking for in mentioning San Miguel and that is all I was looking for. I wasn't suggesting moving there or somehow extolling the joys of the place.

Now as to our local dog problem. My first question to those who contend this is just how it is in Mexico:

If, in fact, Jalisco and/or Chapala have loose dog laws, doesn't that suggest that Mexicans don't view loose dogs as part of living in Mexico? Did Mexicans pass these laws/regulations because they really would prefer having a lot of dogs run loose in their communities, creating a health hazard and smelly mess in their neighborhoods? If not, then why did they pass these laws.

Thanks to the folks who live/have lived in San Miguel for answering my question. I understand where ChrisB is coming from as well and will just observe that voluntary approaches to this problem don't seem to have a great degree of success and maybe, if in fact our Mexican hosts have enacted laws about this, we could see how those might be put to use here. that is all I am suggesting. I greatly support anything, voluntary or otherwise, that could help with this problem. I cringe when I see kids playing in the same grass on our Malecon that these dogs and their owners are using for a bathroom. As the links I posted earlier show, this really is hazardous to everyone's health and that of their pets too.

Thanks for your understanding and forgiveness.

[hensley]

Thank you.

[KathyTX]

Not that this would work here, but in some Condo/Apt. complexes in the U.S., residents have to give DNA samples of the best friends to the landlord. If they don't pick up the poop, it is analyzed and the owner is fined.

[gringal]

Good point, Mainecoons. It wasn't Gringos who came up with and passed the leash laws, any more than it was foreigners who decided to enforce the "no dogs in restaurants" laws in San Miguel. It was Mexicans. We can whine and disobey or we can go along with the laws passed by our hosts.

Yes, there are street dogs in San Miguel as well as a great many "roof dogs": more of the latter than here. They are not well treated. At night, the street dogs "pack up" as is their nature and it's a problem for any cat, chicken or even person who is out in the barrios. People carried rocks; even kids did. The dogs understood thrown rocks. I lived in one of those neighborhoods and I can attest to the incessant noise of the roof dogs and the screams when the pack attacked another animal. Those who wanted their rose colored glasses and lived in the gringo enclave in Centro were just as blind to the general brutality of life as they are here. Mexicans in general were astonished at the foreigners in their attitudes toward animals. Wheher they were more anchored in the reality of nature than we are is a question I'm not debating .........but that's the way it was. There were two worlds, co-exisitng there as there are, here.

I like the climate and altitude here, but otherwise, things are more the same than not, here and there. We have better scenery; they have better restaurants. lol. Pick one. Visit the other.

Signage about leashes at the park as well as clean up wouldn't hurt. Leashing a dog in public is not cruel and unusual punishment.