Another Way To Nationalize Legally

[Frijoles]

So, does this mean that we can only get UCD plates and will be restricted from driving our vehicle freely throughout the country?

[Ajijic]

So, does this mean that we can only get UCD plates and will be restricted from driving our vehicle freely throughout the country?

No, this is totally separate from UCD plates. This is full nationalization as one does at the border or through SS Auto or Guadalajara airport etc.

[Ajijic]

It is confusing to people who are not familiar with UCD plates. If I remember and understand correctly, once someone has UCD plates he can nationalize the UCD vehicle much cheaper than the regular nationalizing. Is that what you are describing?

UCD was seeking that those with UCD plates could nationalize for much less. In Guanajuato state the governor would not approve a discounted program for reasons mentioned but did approve being able to nationalize any NAFTA vehicle even if not UCD plated. Rates vary but Aduana's rates are consistent no matter where one nationalizes. The variation is to do with the broker. At Guadalajara airport the broker is making at least 10000 p plus for himself.

So, simply consider UCD as being an association of campesinos who combine efforts to improve conditions and advocating for the working poor and farmers etc, buy seeds, farming, irrigation, home improvements, making less expensive foreign vehicles legal, government liaison / support for their causes, etc. UCD or similar organizations can be found in most states in Mexico. They now have a program allowing nationalization and as before a separate program for UCD plates for under $100 but with some limitations vs nationalizing.

[La Aurora]

I have a 1978 Chevy Camper Van. AAA in the US classifies it as a class C motor home. Can I nationalize something like that? Any information or help will be greatly appreciated.

[La Aurora]

I have a 1978 Chevy Camper Van. AAA in the US classifies it as a class C motor home. Can I nationalize something like that? Any information or help will be greatly appreciated.

[Ajijic]

I have a 1978 Chevy Camper Van. AAA in the US classifies it as a class C motor home. Can I nationalize something like that? Any information or help will be greatly appreciated.

Sorry we now have agreement as old as 1981. You may be able to do it as a classic as they are vehicles over 29 years old which is yours.

[Joyfull]

What exactly is UCD? I keep seeing these letters but have no idea what they mean. Thanks

[Ajijic]

What exactly is UCD? I keep seeing these letters but have no idea what they mean. Thanks

UCD (La Unión Campesina Democrática)

UCD is an association of campesinos who combine efforts to improve conditions and advocating for the working poor and farmers etc, buy seeds, farming, irrigation, home improvements, making less expensive foreign vehicles legal, government liaison / support for their causes, etc. UCD or similar organizations can be found in most states in Mexico

[tonys]

I just do not understand why people want to take other channels to nationalize their vehicles. There might be easier ways but not legal unless it's done by an approved custom agent at the border.

[Ajijic]

You are mixing up UCD plates for a vehicle not nationalized including non-NAFTA vehicles (about $80) and a totally separate process of nationalizing (for about $1700) through UCD as approved by the government and a process found in many states with UCD and similar organizations..

The nationalizing is done through a broker at the border. The process is similar to SS Auto for example. The vehicles do not leave your home. Three photos, copy of title, visa, utility bill all sent electronically to my wife. The first one we are told is done and waiting for documents to return via courier. We have 4 more in progress and another on Monday. Some of these we have started are in Manazanillo.

UCD is akin to a co-op in Canada. It is a very powerful organization with hundreds of thousands of members helping the poor with a lot of government influence.

Read all the posts to understand.

Tonys, based on your comment nationalizing at the Guadalajara airport is illegal. It has proven to be very legal albeit about 10,000 p more than what UCD offers. And, what we offer is a full refund if does not work.

[tonys]

You are mixing up UCD plates for a vehicle not nationalized including non-NAFTA vehicles (about $80) and a totally separate process of nationalizing (for about $1700) through UCD as approved by the government and a process found in many states with UCD and similar organizations..

The nationalizing is done through a broker at the border. The process is similar to SS Auto for example. The vehicles do not leave your home. Three photos, copy of title, visa, utility bill all sent electronically to my wife. The first one we are told is done and waiting for documents to return via courier. We have 4 more in progress and another on Monday. Some of these we have started are in Manazanillo.

UCD is akin to a co-op in Canada. It is a very powerful organization with hundreds of thousands of members helping the poor with a lot of government influence.

Read all the posts to understand.

Tonys, based on your comment nationalizing at the Guadalajara airport is illegal. It has proven to be very legal albeit about 10,000 p more than what UCD offers. And, what we offer is a full refund if does not work.

The brokers at the airport work with the brokers at the border, They do it in "absentia". It's not the proper way to do it but apparently legal. I had talked to Marta Duenas at the airport but chose to go to the border.

[Ajijic]

Nationalizing through UCD is 19000 to 26000 pesos total. The process is very similar to the airport but considerably less. I believe all the organizations nationalizing from within Mexico vs the border are using a bonafide broker at the broker.

[sanmiguelfemale]

Ajijic, you have been writing about the UCD plates for sometime now, have you heard of anyone having his vehicle confiscated because of UCD plates?

JOCO, please do not believe all you read about the legality of UCD plates. Today, my mechanic in San Miguel, Victor Espinosa (044-415-15 18235) - who many expats rave about and who speaks perfect English told me the tale of a friend of his. Towards the end of the year his friend was pulled over because of his UCD plates by Hacienda. Now you've probably read that the Federales have an agreement with Aduana and are the only entity entitled to confiscate a car. Wrong. Hacienda drives around in unmarked vehicles with their flashing lights inside on the dash. When they went on a "blitz" not too long ago this chap was shopping at our Mega store and was told he had to pay a fine in the vicinity of $20,000 pesos. In addition to that his car was confiscated. He employed a lawyer and had the fine cancelled but Hacienda kept the car. Victor said Hacienda seized many others but if they were Mexican and not part of expat forums that's probably why we don't hear reports of the actual numbers.

I actually believed what was being promoted by a facilitator and her husband in San Miguel and went to get and pay $1200 pesos for a year's worth of licensing. I wouldn't dare put them on my car knowing this and count those pesos a loss but it could have been far greater. We also hear of a letter from the governor of Guanajuato being given to UCD plate holders that says the car can't be seized just because of UCD plates. I'm currently waiting for the official translation of that letter by a certified translator here but her preliminary notes indicate all is 'not as advertised' by this facilitator. So when I get it I'll share on Chapala.com and other forums so folks can draw their own conclusions.

[sanmiguelfemale]

I just do not understand why people want to take other channels to nationalize their vehicles. There might be easier ways but not legal unless it's done by an approved custom agent at the border.

Tonys, I do agree with you. Ajijic or "LovingMexico" on Mexconnect.com are telling people nationalizing through UCD is legal but won't disclose the UCD rep in Dolores Hildago or the border rep they're working with in this brand new venture, and I've given up asking so there's no way to authenticate it's an approved broker. It's also very curious that this UCD rep in Dolores will only work with his wife and that folks in San Miguel who wish to investigate on their own will only be given her business card we're told. A few of us are writing to UCD, our Mayor and others in the interests of transparency for others. If someone can find a link on the web that confirms UCD has actually received Federal approval to nationalize their cars a reward is being offered - lol, just kidding.

In the meantime, below I'm re-posting with the author's permission an account that appears yesterday on San Miguel's Civil List (a Yahoo Group). Like Yucalandia.com, there's nothing better than actual first hand accounts of people who have successfully nationalized their cars, and the process they went through. The post contains a list of Aduana's approved customs brokers which others will find useful.

"We recently moved to SMA from San Antonio, TX. While we were in Laredo waiting

for the customs broker to check our furniture and goods before crossing, we had

our car nationalized. Here is what we learned from Mexican Customs:

(1) Your car must have been manufactured by a NAFTA country: México, the U.S.,

or Canada. If you purchased your car in the U.S., for example, and it is a

foreign make but manufactured in the U.S., then your car qualifies.

(2) There are a number of places on both sides of the border as well as inside

México (i.e. a Farmers' Union, etc.) that offer to nationalize your car.

Beware! Not everyone is authorized to legally nationalize your car! Even Customs in

Querétaro is not authorized to do so.

(3) Here is the list of authorized customs agents in Nuevo Laredo that can

nationalize your car. You can get the process started before you go there by

scanning your title, photo of the VIN number on your car, etc. and depositing

the fee into the bank account of the agent. Not to worry about depositing money

into the account: you will have the electronic copy of the bank transaction to

verify your deposit.

A.A. (Agente Aduanal) Jesús Alberto Marina Delgado (956) 728-1134

A.A. José Guadalupe Bautista Montoya (956) 722-6476

A.A. Juan Hermilo Chávez Rodríguez (956) 753-8329

A.A. Francisco Román Partida Robledo (56) 727-2650

We worked with José Guadalupe Bautista Montoya. And he also speaks English.

(4) You will find out how much the cost is (dependent on the year and make of

your vehicle) by calling. The numbers listed above are Laredo, TX numbers. The

agent can also tell you exactly what to scan and email to him, how long it will

take, etc. so you can plan your trip and know how many nights (1,2, etc.) it

will take.

(5) If you opt to get "nationalization" with someone not authorized by the

government, you might get away with it. However, if you are stopped and the

document numbers are not legitimate numbers in the computer, then you will be

assessed a HEAVY fine and, most likely, will have your car taken away from you.

(6) For more information, you can visit the site of Customs of the Mexican

Federal Government:

http://www.aduanas.gob.mx

gmartin@...

You can also call the Association of Customs Agents:

(867) 719-4618

(867) 711-5800

(867) 711-7503

The above information is from a brochure given to us by the Mexican Consulate in

Laredo, TX.

Terri

[AlanMexicali]

"Now you've probably read that the Federales have an agreement with Aduana and are the only entity entitled to confiscate a car. Wrong. Hacienda drives around in unmarked vehicles with their flashing lights inside on the dash."

http://www.shcp.gob.mx/LASHCP/campanas_digitales/Paginas/que_es_el_sat.aspx

Hacienda [sHCP] is the secretaria that is responsible for SAT which is part of ADUANA so hacienda is ADUANA and is SAT and is all one secretaria, not separate.

So your conclusion is incorrect in regards to ADUANA and the Federal Police.

Of course we might think from your statement ADUANA cannot check vehicles before deciding to impound them or confiscate vehicles ONLY the Federal Police can "check" vehicle for legality but you have it wrong. ADUANA does stop and check vehicles and can do this. Using the word hacienda and ADUANA are synonymous in this case, not separate.

Also if the Federal Police impound a vehicle they have to contact ADUANA to do the paperwork to confíscate it, not the other way around as you indicate, or levies fines etc.

[sanmiguelfemale]

"Now you've probably read that the Federales have an agreement with Aduana and are the only entity entitled to confiscate a car. Wrong. Hacienda drives around in unmarked vehicles with their flashing lights inside on the dash."

http://www.shcp.gob.mx/LASHCP/campanas_digitales/Paginas/que_es_el_sat.aspx

Hacienda [sHCP] is the secretaria that is responsible for SAT which is part of ADUANA so hacienda is ADUANA and is SAT and is all one secretaria, not separate.

So your conclusion is incorrect in regards to ADUANA and the Federal Police.

Of course we might think from your statement ADUANA cannot check vehicles before deciding to impound them or confiscate vehicles ONLY the Federal Police can "check" vehicle for legality but you have it wrong. ADUANA does stop and check vehicles and can do this. Using the word hacienda and ADUANA are synonymous in this case, not separate.

Also if the Federal Police impound a vehicle they have to contact ADUANA to do the paperwork to confíscate it, not the other way around as you indicate, or levies fines etc.

Allow me to clarify. Many expats think that the only eyes out there on their UCD plates are "Federales marked vehicles", ie. dark blue. Hacienda/Aduana drive around in unmarked vehicles of all colors. So I suppose one can run (from the dark blue cars) but they can't hide.

[jrm30655]

I just do not understand why people want to take other channels to nationalize their vehicles. There might be easier ways but not legal unless it's done by an approved custom agent at the border.

Why do we keep having this discussion when people are legally getting their cars legalized without going to the border?

I personally got a Jeep Wrangler, 2006, NAFTA legalized and plated (checked and verified thru the MX computer) by using a broker at Guad airport.

Exactly how it was done, I don't know or care. Just that it got done without me having to drive 1400 miles, pay the gas and tolls, food, lodging etc.

There are people here like S&S Auto that are doing the same thing and I've checked a few of those and they look legal also.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion........

If you are Permanente, you should get MX plates, a MX license and MX insurance. Then you don't have to dodge the cops or be a target for them

[daisy2013]

Why do we keep having this discussion when people are legally getting their cars legalized without going to the border?

I personally got a Jeep Wrangler, 2006, NAFTA legalized and plated (checked and verified thru the MX computer) by using a broker at Guad airport.

Exactly how it was done, I don't know or care. Just that it got done without me having to drive 1400 miles, pay the gas and tolls, food, lodging etc.

There are people here like S&S Auto that are doing the same thing and I've checked a few of those and they look legal also.

This whole thing has been blown out of proportion........

If you are Permanente, you should get MX plates, a MX license and MX insurance. Then you don't have to dodge the cops or be a target for them

totally agree, get MX plates. My neighbor had s&s try to do this and 6 months later nada. Too many people trying to do this since so many of us are now going Residente Permanente. Do it the right way ad get it over with.

[Ajijic]

Thanks Joco.

Alan and JRM... Linda Warren and Tonys are simply misinformed and for some reason believe making inaccurate fear-filled comments will be harmful to those nationalizing cars without a trip to the border. We have several cars in progress including from Manzanillo and UCD and my wife has gone so far as to say your funds are fully refunded if the pedimento does not come through or not illegal. It is even written on receipts.

As to those who get UCD plate (separate from nationalizing) for a fee of less than $100 in first year and $35 in subsequent years their is a video which explains what happened in Guanajuato state. Those who spread the fear need to watch the video.

It was Aduana impersonators who stopped cars. There are no Aduana staff in Guanajuato state and Hacienda does not stop cars.

When one does not know the relationship between Aduana and SAT their posts loose all credibility. Linda Warren has tried on several web boards to embarrass me and my wife and attack our integrity as she is doing here with no success.

The person in charge of UCD for our state has an agreement with the Governor of this state to nationalize cars virtually akin to S&S and Guadalajara airport have a process. As JRM states their pedimentos are proving legal. The man in charge of UCD as I noted we have met many times. My wife communicates with him daily. He works at least 6 days a week and often 12 hours a day and often on Sundays representing the campesinos (farmers). Their organization throughout Mexico has hundreds of thousands of members akin to the farmers co-op in say Canada. They have similar or even better agreements in other states. In Chihuahua the UCD nationalizing fee is much less and non-NAFTA vehicles can be nationalized.

All expats are doing is trying to follow the ever changing law regarding especially Permanent Residents and their vehicles, including us.

We are doing it legally and spend hours every day communicating with clients and UCD. We are going slow to ensure everything is correct. We have many waiting to nationalize as we know of no one else able to nationalize from anywhere in Mexico without leaving their home. We can even nationalize some trailers. The biggest hurdle so far has been getting Aduana to accept the two page registration form from British Columbia, Canada. Those documents are combined with the document from the government run insurance and are "foreign" to Aduana. Even in Nogales it has been reported these BC registrations have generated a need to pay 2500 pesos extra so a broker can "generate" a new relationship. Thankfully, the man in charge of UCD for the state worked for Aduana for many years and this problem may be resolved today, legally and without additional payment.

We do know a way to nationalize non-NAFTA vehicles through UCD in Chihuahua as we described to Mainecoons. Unfortunately it is more complicated and cost is about 33,000 p.

And, yes UCD asked my wife to be their sole contact in San Miguel and area working through their office. Any expat who goes to their office is given her business card. Their staff do not speak English; they have limited computer skills; they can not run to the bank to make deposits as their is only one staff at a time nor do they want to be in possession of large sums of money; the various forms of registrations and titles are foreign to them and in English. Nor does the head of UCD for the state want to or has the time to build a working relationship with others when he has Sonia whom he respects and trusts. Making mistakes when a typical transaction is 20,000 p or more and a guarantee of repayment if not complete is not his first choice. It seems my wife's success is an irritation but I applaud her intelligence and resourcefulness. She has worked for 8 months on this project. Sonia is highly respected in this city and senior staff at INM, Venta, Presidencia (including our mayor), Seguro Popular, DIF (INAPAM), UCD, municipal police and hundreds of clients. She has been very successful.

[AlanMexicali]

Allow me to clarify. Many expats think that the only eyes out there on their UCD plates are "Federales marked vehicles", ie. dark blue. Hacienda/Aduana drive around in unmarked vehicles of all colors. So I suppose one can run (from the dark blue cars) but they can't hide.

I have lived and still maintain a condo in San Diego. US Customs has hundreds of marked and unmarked vehicles checking everything there as it is on the border and a sea port not only vehicles. I have seen 10 US Customs marked vehicles full of uniformed men going into a warehouse with guns drawn etc. and so does the Border Patrol all over California and in most states. So what else is new if it happens here also. Nothing to worry about. IMO

[AlanMexicali]

Joco stated:" I know many people here get their information from their gardeners, maids, mechanics but I didn't do that NOB and I won't do that here. Too many people rely on gossip and the more salient the gossip the more believable they think it is."

Now this is one of the most revealing statements that explains so much of what a few Expats post that is pure gossip AND WHERE THEY GET IF FROM.

MY WIFE AND I READ NEWSPApeRS, WATCH NEWS ShOWS AND RELY ON THOSE FOR IMFORMATION ABOut the state of affairs in Mexico and abroad.

Those that trust a working class perception of modern day Mexico coming from the mouth of someone that more or less is uniformed and gullible for the most part usually only get gossip spread around and the attitude all officials in Mexico are corrupt and incompetent.

Low class rhetoric at best, total ignorance at worst and malicious towards authority of any kind. Resentment in the lower classes here runs very deep and if you have a bit of intelligence, information coming from them is to be avoided at all cost least you also should become tainted and prejudice as many of them are.

[AlanMexicali]

I guess I ain't nothing but a hound dog because I don't trust government officials anywhere. I do find it amazing that newcomers here would never ask someone who works for them NOB about any legal information but they take what their maids and mechanics here say as Gospel. I guess because they are Mexican they must an inside source to the correct information.

One reason is here it is very hard to be part of the middle class and even harder to become involved it the upper middle class if you don´t marry into it, especially if you are retired and don´t have any influence other than being someone´s customer or employer.

If not retired and own a good sized business that is different.

You become part of the Expat socioeconomic class and usually are excluded form inside opinions except as you stated. Reading the newspaper, watching news shows and reading reliable internet sources, outside opinions, is helpful as long as they are not tainted with rhetoric as some have posted here, not all by any means, but some.

[sanmiguelfemale]

John Garvin seems to think I'm trying to discredit him. Has he been wrong on his answers on web forums in the past? Yes. Many of us have. It's touch and go at times, but I don't have a personal vendetta here. Someone asked if a UCD plated vehicle was being driven in San Miguel where they are (supposed) to be ok. Yes. Hacienda confiscated it. The lawyer dealt with Hacienda, got the fine cancelled but Hacienda kept the vehicle.

The ONLY thing I take exception to is:

1. UCD rep in Dolores Hildago is a salaried employee. Who have him permission to give all the nationalization business to John's wife? Does the head of UCD know? Doesn't that form a monopoly to exclude our many trusted San Miguel facilitators? Is there a kick back happening? (just sayin......)

2. Where on the internet, news channels, newspapers does it say UCD has received Federal approval to nationalize its vehicles? (nada) John keeps referring to the Governor of Guanajuato and then says Federal approval in other posts. Which is it? The "letter" from the Gov of Gto does not mention no confiscation possible -- and, most importantly, makes no reference to the immigration status of the driver but the innuendo is that UCD is for nationals......poor farmers.

3. Why is there no disclosure of the "authorized" customs rep they're using at the border to process nationalizations? What's the secret? Doesn't that sound rather suspicious?

4. A refund of monies deposited to secure nationalization is being offered. But if the Pedimento isn't

in order and the car is illegal after the legal time lapse has passed for PRs.....and God forbid the

car is confiscated, what happens then? Do John and his wife buy you a new car?

These items may sound speculative and somewhat fear-mongering, but when one posts on a public forum soliciting business these are simple questions that need to be answered.

Nothing personal.

[hermance]

It seems to me "sanmiguelfemale" that you are objecting to John and his wife because they are proactive in helping permanent resident holders and perhaps others, legalize their vehciles. And yes, your posts do read as a personal.attack against them. Give it up.

[Ajijic]

Odd how a person such as Linda Warren can imply my wife is doing something illegal. Sounds like a personal attack to me.I thought they were not allowed.

Separate from nationalizing, as to UCD plates one gets for 600 p, each person who has these plates carries a letter from the Governor stating car is legal and can not be confiscated for the simple reason of these plates. A video I posted addresses this situation. The head of UCD knows of no car being confiscated for the simple reason of UCD plates. He has been asked directly by my wife. Keep in mind, UCD promises any fines etc resulting solely from having a UCD plate and they will reimburse the person. Now if Linda Warren wants to publish name of lawyer she is referring to on Monday we will go to the lawyer's office and ask and publish the outcome.

Of course, Aduana is a federal agency. Of course, the Governor is a state agency.

And, when pedimento comes, they are checked immediately to ensure they are correct and authorized. So how would a car be confiscated? At that point one has not even applied for state plates / registration. Plus does one think the head of UCD for the state, a very influential position would jeopardize his job and credibility in this manner? The process used by UCD throughout Guanajuato state is almost the same as used by S&S Auto and used at the Guadalajara airport.