San Miguel Investments

[contrarian]

Actually, I prefer good and cheap. And, BTW, climate and location seem more important to me since I don't live in restaurants and bars. Do you?

Climate is a matter of opinion. Regarding location: Our favorite beach resort is Ixtapa/Zihuatanejo, which is a four-hour shorter drive from San Miguel than from Ajijic. And, no, I don't "live" in a bar, but an astonishing number of besotted Ajijic/Chapala barflies do.

[Ajijic]

Based on past 4 years living in SMA and a year in Ajijic, as to weather, in a typical year SMA rainy season starts ~ June 18, 10 days after lakeside. In a normal year SMA receives 21" of rain and lakeside 32". Last year SMA received 15" as it did the year before. Hail is not common in either place but of course happens.

Almost every day the ultimate temperature reached at lakeside is the same as SMA; however, SMA reaches that temperature more slowly as nights are cooler due to elevation and no lake moderation effect.

In SMA centro frost is very rare but where we live, 3 km from Liverpool and at 6900 feet we can get down to freezing and a little below. This past winter was warmer and only one morning freezing. In SMA centro a cold night in winter is 38F about 10 F below lakeside.

SMA temperatures are closer to those of the Guadalajara airport. Below is a reliable weather station higher than centro at 2026 meters.

www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=20.914167,-100.744167

Compare to www.chapalaweather.net

IN SMA a fireplace, wall or portable heater is handy for a brief time to take off the morning chill. Also, many homes in centro adjoin other homes and therefore no windows on each side. Once a concrete build homes gets cold and no south facing windows, without a source of heat they stay cold. We also advise newcomers to seek a home with south facing windows if possible.

[Kevin K]

Ajijic's post on the weather is very accurate based on our own experience of living in SMA. In a nutshell the weather (by U.S. standards, especially) is spectacular both places, but winter lows are 10 degrees lower (making a heater or the like mandatory in SMA). Significantly less rain there could be an offsetting advantage to some, but I can't imagine the differences in weather being decisive for very many people.

SMA is high and dry - very New Mexico-like - and the city itself is gorgeous and very hilly. It's a great workout just walking around but would be challenging for anyone not able-bodied. The combination of higher altitude, inversions and more pollution could be an issue, but we are talking a city of 100,000 plus and a municipal area population of nearly 200K - it's a city, folks, not a bunch of villages, so as gringal and others have pointed out, other than the fact that both places are expat havens it really is comparing apples and oranges.

Living there is very different from visiting, and the restaurants we miss in SMA are the fabulous range of fondas and taquerias serving complete meals for 40-60 pesos with a range of stews and regional specialties that are simply not available at Lakeside. There are also 3 world-class bakeries there, excellent Chinese and Thai food, authentic wood-fired oven Italian pizza, a branch of the superb La Europea wine store, etc. For those kind of amenities as well as international cuisine, there are probably more good choices there than in Lakeside and Guadalajara combined, which says a lot considering the relative populations of SMA and Guad.

As for international cuisine, there are a ton of mediocre and overpriced places near El Jardin and a ton more that are very good to excellent but with basically U.S. big city prices. Think of it as a whole world of #4's with no Ajijic Tango in sight, but those who crow about how cheap Lakeside places are probably also ought to admit that you can count all of the good, good-value gringo food places here on one hand with fingers left over. Such is certainly not the case in SMA.

As budget retirees we found the overall cost of living in SMA to be no more than Lakeside but that's because we mostly eat local food and those options are much better in SMA than here. Rents, apples-to-apples, are essentially the same - which is shall we say interesting since real estate values in SMA start at about double what they are here.

There are wonderful expat communities in both places, and both are highly seasonal but we noticed even more coming and going in SMA than here, and (he says enviously) usually to more interesting places (it's a lot easier to "go green" listening to folks talking about the challenges they face in keeping up their other homes in San Francisco, Manhattan or Spain).

In high season there's probably more good-to-great music, film, art and food in SMA in a couple of weeks than in the whole winter here - IF you need that level of stimulation and IF you're willing to accept the trade-offs of not having the Lake, a slower pace, and clean air, and if being a couple of hours minimum from an airport and 4 hours from one with decent airfares simply doesn't matter to you. It's all trade-offs and we're lucky to have choices.

[contrarian]

Get real. San Miguel offers far more than fondas and taquerias serving cheap meals. It has the iconic Harry's bar (aka "Hank's Louisiana Cafe"; why the change is a separate story ), plus an extraordinary Indian restaurant (Bhaji), two decent Chinese restaurants (compared to Ajijic's wretched Min Wah), plus an exquisite fish restaurant (Pescau del Mar), and a dozen or so other 3-4 star eateries. Ajijic Tango would be one mouth-watering alternative among many in San Miguel.

The fact is that San Miguel is a city of over 130,000 inhabitants, only a tiny proportion of them gringos. Mexicans own San Miguel's economy, which is why laws barring dogs from restaurants are so strictly enforced.

[Mainecoons]

I'm curious. Why don't you San Miguel folks have your own board where you can assure each other how wonderful San Miguel is and how crappy Lakeside is by comparison? Because this board is about Lake Chapala and believe it or not, we prefer living here and enjoy visiting there.

How you think you can compare our small towns with a metro area of 200K or so escapes me. Clearly "contrarian" (very appropriate handle) feels driven to assure us what bumpkins we are because we don't have "Harry's" et al.

We're not and your tone is getting tiresome.

[contrarian]

The paragon of enlightened, free-wheeling democratic discourse has spoken.

Lighten up, dude.

[Tangawizi]

Now, now, boys, don't fight ....you are both right in your own way.

As Contrarian said in a previous post, it's all a matter of taste. The world would be pretty boring if we all liked the same things. Just imagine how crowded Lakeside would be if all the San Miguelians moved here ... and vice versa. Really now - would either of you like that?

Thanks, Gringal, for the reminder about the "Gangs of San Miguel". The blog at http://richland.wordpress.com/about/ is a total scream - especially the Gang Requirements post which explains all about how one should reinvent oneself. Someone with Richard's satirical eye should start a similar blog about Lakeside! Lord knows we don't lack for material ...

[Hud]

I've spent significant time in both places and enjoy the discussion. For me, Lakeside was my choice, simply because of the lake. Otherwise, SMA would have been the choice. I love being near water. Every place is good and bad, depends solely on the choice of those who reside there. One is better for some, and the other is better for others. Both are (were) excellent choices in years past. Now, ?

[Kevin K]

Get real. San Miguel offers far more than fondas and taquerias serving cheap meals. It has the iconic Harry's bar (aka "Hank's Louisiana Cafe"; why the change is a separate story ), plus an extraordinary Indian restaurant (Bhaji), two decent Chinese restaurants (compared to Ajijic's wretched Min Wah), plus an exquisite fish restaurant (Pescau del Mar), and a dozen or so other 3-4 star eateries. Ajijic Tango would be one mouth-watering alternative among many in San Miguel.

The fact is that San Miguel is a city of over 130,000 inhabitants, only a tiny proportion of them gringos. Mexicans own San Miguel's economy, which is why laws barring dogs from restaurants are so strictly enforced.

Okay, you've mentioned Harry's Bar twice, which pretty much destroys any claim to culinary credibility as it is well-known in SMA for booze and meet-ups and certainly not food.

Bhaji might be an extraordinary Indian restaurant for SMA, but heck ANY Indian restaurant in Mexico is right up with unicorns on the rarity index. In any U.S. city of any size it'd just be another Indian restaurant.

Golden Dragon is the only good Chinese restaurant in San Miguel and it's quite good - meaning it's on par with the dozens of $6 lunch plate General Tso's Chicken and Moo Shu port Chinese-American dives we love to frequent in the U.S. It's cheap, the food is well-prepared, and like the aforementioned U.S. equivalents it is about as authentically Chinese as Taco Bell is authentically Mexican. Of course it's a country mile better than Min Wah, but so is any stir fry you make at home or anything vaguel Chinese sounding in the freezer section of Costco.

Aijic Tango is arguably the gold standard for consistency and value here and we appreciate it very much. I wouldn't call it "mouth-watering" and in San Miguel it wouldn't even merit a mention.

Relative percentages of Mexicans to gringos in both places seem to be about the same, but San Miguel attracts a different crowd of both constituencies, with more interesting things to do than talk about dogs in restaurants.

[Candy]

I have spent considerable time in both places too. We'd spent a couple of winters in Chapala and lLast year I was really trying to decide between Chapala and SMA and almost didn't go to SMA because of the controversy over the burnings. Since I have asthma, it was a concern. But I really like SMA so decided to give it a go. I can honestly say, I didn't see or smell any of the smoke/burnings that are talked about. We spent most of our time in San Antonio, Centro, Guadalupe, Aurora areas so maybe that's why - the burnings are more to the outside of town. I had no problems with my breathing at all. I like the Lake at Chapala but since we can't swim in it, it seems like less of a trade off. I am not "under 50 and love night club scenes", but I do like good theatre, music, and food. San Miguel has all in abundance. I may feel differently if I was living full time but since only 5 months, I want to feel young (even though I am not!!)...keeping busy and having lots of options are important. I get my "water fix" in the summer back home. And by the way San Miguel has their own list called the "Snivel List"...people are the same everywhere!!

[satnrose]

I'm surprised the question hasn't been asked. Have the value of homes decreased in SMA in the past ten years?

Interestingly, my son bought a condo in Costa Rica eight months before I bought my home in Ajijic. He paid 240,000 USD and sold it last month for 290,000.