Mexico's Corrupt Election

[Ajijic]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/gift-cards-in-mexico-feed-fears-of-vote-buying-by-pri/article4387756/

[Studio del Sol]

Agreed. Just the tip of the big banana.

[Toltepeceno]

Yep, i said it before and I will say it again, this election was not a referendum on anything. It was bought and paid for by pri and as the article says it will not mean annulment, just fines. They bought the media, polls, votes and the whole ball of wax.

You guys are right, you have not seen anything yet. I posted before that my brother in law's (husband to my wife's sister) brother was a driver for pena nieto's family when he was governor of mexico state. He, an uneducated driver, bought a number of houses, land, a fleet of delivery trucks, houses for several family members, flew his parents to another state private plane to eat and came back, etc. You KNOW how his big buddies are making out.

It's sad that so many are willing to sell votes for so little, but they mostly hit those in df and mexico state. The highest population, poor and "dog eat dog" areas. People here in mexico state will sell their votes for little of nothing. Many did it for getting some paint slapped on their houses.

[Mainecoons]

How do you "buy" a vote with a secret ballot? How do you know how they voted regardless of whether they took the payola?

Maybe it was as much about the fact that the majority didn't want to vote socialist and believe something new has to be tried after 6 year of murder and mayhem with Calderon's failed attempt to make war on the cartels. Seems to me that it came down to a choice between "same old same old", the socialistas or "Quien sabes?"

Just saying.

Remember, the people here were able to vote the PRI out of office when the ballot was much less secure than it is now. Nieto goes back to the wall to wall corruption of the old PRI, I'll bet that it can and will happen again.

[ChrisB]

Well then these poor Mexicans should send someone to the US and Canada and learn how to properly fix an election! No politics here.

[More Liana]

How do you "buy" a vote with a secret ballot? How do you know how they voted regardless of whether they took the payola?

Maybe it was as much about the fact that the majority didn't want to vote socialist and believe something new has to be tried after 6 year of murder and mayhem with Calderon's failed attempt to make war on the cartels. Seems to me that it came down to a choice between "same old same old", the socialistas or "Quien sabes?"

Just saying.

Remember, the people here were able to vote the PRI out of office when the ballot was much less secure than it is now. Nieto goes back to the wall to wall corruption of the old PRI, I'll bet that it can and will happen again.

Mainecoons, the vote is bought by offering money or goods in return for the 'loan' of the voter credencial to take to the polling place. This practice has been documented over and over again during this election. If you haven't seen the many photographs and videos, you are not watching Mexican TV news or reading Mexican newspapers.

[Ajijic]

Mainecoons, the vote is bought by offering money or goods in return for the 'loan' of the voter credencial to take to the polling place. This practice has been documented over and over again during this election. If you haven't seen the many photographs and videos, you are not watching Mexican TV news or reading Mexican newspapers.

Amen !!!

Just like crime, some try to compare it to the US to justify when it is dramatically different. Same with political corruption which is so blatant here. I wonder if most expats are aware how many are protesting in the streets of Mexico City every day? From where do you get your Mexican news other than a 20 second sound bite from NOB?

http://cpi.transparency.org/cpi2011/results/

I will have to admit the US is 24th now when it comes to corruption; Mexico is 100th on the list. FYI, Canada is 10th.

As the song goes ... to the Mexicans I say ... Rise up! Rise up!

[Mainecoons]

Mainecoons, the vote is bought by offering money or goods in return for the 'loan' of the voter credencial to take to the polling place. This practice has been documented over and over again during this election. If you haven't seen the many photographs and videos, you are not watching Mexican TV news or reading Mexican newspapers.

OK, thanks for the answer. There was a pretty good spread between the candidates. Is it really possible to do this by the millions here? How could you do this in great numbers without the same guy showing up again and again at the polls with different credenciales? Particularly when supposedly the top three parties had poll watchers in the polls.

I can definitely see how this works to win close elections. That's how voter fraud works in the U.S.

[More Liana]

OK, thanks for the answer. There was a pretty good spread between the candidates. Is it really possible to do this by the millions here? How could you do this in great numbers without the same guy showing up again and again at the polls with different credenciales? Particularly when supposedly the top three parties had poll watchers in the polls.

I can definitely see how this works to win close elections. That's how voter fraud works in the U.S.

Read this:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/congress/apparent-winner-of-mexican-presidential-race-faces-struggle-for-support/2012/07/02/gJQAqICPJW_story.html

[Toltepeceno]

They own people at the polls, in many places people voting for other than pri were turned away. They just take in a stack of the copied id's, probably many done before or after the polls were open.. The spread was 6%, what percent of the population actually votes? These cards were in no way the only payoff's, around here some areas was by house paintings, others by backpacks full of goodies.

You are assuming they did not buy people at the polls and these cards were the only payoffs and neither is true. In the poorest of areas it took little to get copies of their voter id.

ANYONE claiming the fraud in this election is comparable to fraud in the us is really reaching. Thinking of the fraud of only being on the voter level is also a mistake. This is WAY beyond acorn having the dead and elderly vote (unknowingly). Not to mention it will not matter, it will just be a fine if anything..

In one calixtlahuaca alone they probably had several thousand copies of voter id, this is in the millions.

As ajijic said, people have been protesting by the thousands daily.

[HelperGuy]

Why did Vicente Fox cross party lines to endorse the PRI? CNN says "the fix was in", but doesn't offer any substantiating evidence.

[Toltepeceno]

Here is a post from more liana's link, sums up what most here think (the informed anyway). I think many from the us have a hard time thinking outside the box (no disrespect intended). Completely forget about the us when talking about stuff in mexico, many have a hard time doing this evidenced by constant referrals to the us. This is anything happening in the us on steroids big time. Poll watchers? Give me a break, they were on pri's payroll just like everyone else.

I know I am harsh and direct in many things I say, but I and many mexican's like the post below, are fed up with the corruption and deflecting to the us is what many xpats and mexican's alike do. It's just justifying worse behavior with other bad behavior and it's not even on the same level. In what could also be considered a deflection in a way it's like those two worthless parties in the us pointing fingers at each other and not accepting responsibility of what their own party is doing.

The post, I could not have said it so well:

"To the general population.

I write this with the purpose of informing people out of our country. Mexicans want the world to know about the real situation we are living with the fake called “ democratic elections” our government spends millions trying to make people believe we live a democracy which is clear we don´t. It’s known and accepted by many we have passed through some frauds in our past and this occasion was not going to be the exception. We are about to be imposed a president and our IFE (electing federal institution) which has been the tool to make this imposition, this week may give him the “adjudication” of the presidency.

Mexicans ask themselves how an aspirant of the presidency like him can win an election, a man who has been disowned by the most of Mexicans. People have shown their disavowal in many ways but our efforts apparently haven´t been enough to avoid this to happened. Peña Nieto has a background stained with blood and corruption and we Mexicans don’t want him to lead our country ‘cause we know the only way he is going to lead us is to more poverty and corruption, plus the intolerance and authoritarianism we know his political party represents.

Now we realize about the fake we have lived for decades and many ask themselves why our country spends millions making this fake if at the end they will impose whoever they want.

To support what we say about this fraud we have plenty of evidence that many citizens have gathered all along the country and we have witnessed many abnormalities that would void the electing process in any country where real Democracy exists.

We want to be listened beyond our borders and make the world turn and see what is happening in our country."

[Toltepeceno]

Who knows what they gave him, could be anything. Money usually does it.

Why did Vicente Fox cross party lines to endorse the PRI? CNN says "the fix was in", but doesn't offer any substantiating evidence.

[Rony]

And where is el movimiento "yo soy 132", in all this ?? I know that they have been protesting (and they witnessed irregularities at the polling stations) as well, but how big were the demonstrations and how forceful and willing are they ?

Two weeks ago, I witnessed one of their marches in Guad. and guess that there were no more than a 1000 protesters.... with

200 000 students at UDG alone (half of a procent of that one university).

And why is PAN so reluctant y "aguantando todo esto" ? At least AMLO is reacting in some way.

I like to compare to Thailand, where the same things happen and also a "new democracy", where votes are bought, same average income... A lot more reaction there (especially a few years ago).

[jimfos]

Talked to a friend from Sta.Cruz (other side of Chapala) yesterday. Asked if she voted. No, because she would have to take 2 buses to get to her voting place and waste more than 1/2 day. She was offered 500 pesos by PRI for her credentials. She declined even though she has no job and money is tight. Some will stand for their principles.

[Mainecoons]

What's this big ballot recount that apparently was just announced all about?

[Mainecoons]

Forty nine million people voted in Mexico. Nieto won by 6.5 percent, or more than 3 million votes. I think it would be a physical impossibility for any political party to buy this many votes. They can definitely buy enough votes in close local situations to win but buying 3 million nationwide?

Unlikely to say the least.

[Toltepeceno]

I do not expect people used to the nob way to believe it, bit I'm sure they got millions. Between these 3 small pueblos here I know they got thousands and thousands. Whole pueblos (thousands) turned out for freebies (buckets, backpacks, house paintings, etc.) for a copy of their id. Mexico state has 15 million people, some of the poorest in mexico, and who knows how many pueblos like this. Here and df are their main focus points, but not all of them. This is very well coordinated, believe it or not. The Unions were providing much of the muscle. You would have to see their rally's and door to door efforts here to believe it I guess.

Bus drivers that want to keep their job vote pri, I have one that is a brother in law. The "company" votes with their voter id's. The same with taxi drivers. It costs 300,000 pesos fot taxi license plates here in the state of mexico. Most are owned by the well to do and taxi companies and the drivers rent the plates for several thousand pesos a month. Pri makes it easy for the companies to get plates, not one taxi driver or bus driver votes against pri. If they do not give their id's they lose their plates.

All of that aside there is another white elephant that helped pri. The woman running for pan. I know of people here, men, that would not vote for pan because of a woman candidate. Their wives did. That's probably something that escapes those from nob and all of us know about. Sexism is huge. pan even got beat by AMLO, socialists in mexico? It's VERY conservative here with a few exceptions.

I know some really will not believe it's anything but a referendum on pan, but the fact is as was posted 80% here support the military action no matter what the nob sound bites say. Even Arroyo grande up north said he knows of nobody that does not support it. If there was anything like a referendum on pan it was because they had a woman running.

Think the bloodshed will stop with pri? Not a chance, the narcos will have more free reign though. No soldiers or police deaths to make the papers, just the "nameless" poor as it was before that did not rate the papers.

"What's this big ballot recount that apparently was just announced all about?"

Show, because it has gained so much attention. Nothing will come of it though.

" Some will stand for their principles."

OF course, otherwise all would have voted pri. It's just that the amount is astounding.

"I think it's funny that they feel cheated with only getting a gift card worth $7.25 when they thought it would be more like $35."

I do not support doing this in any way, shape, or form, but i think it's funny that people that move here still think NOB. It's not 35.00, it's 500 pesos. To you 35.00 is nothing. Try at least looking at it through the eyes of those making less than 70 pesos a day. I know it's hard, but this is not the usa. Those making over 6700 pesos a month are in the upper 10% and what people here from nob are not making a lot more than 6700 pesos a month? Most are well up in the 90 percent range. I have seen some refer to "middle class mexican's" and those are normally in the above 90% range.

[Ajijic]

Mainecoons they easily bought 3 million votes. I have many relatives in Mexico City, All had people knocking on the door exchanging a copy of their ID for brooms, mops, food, aprons, coolers, socks, hats, cutting boards, books, pencils, crayons, pens, umbrella, raincoats, mouse pad, gift cards, plastic sunglasses, food, etc all by PRI. The greater Mexico City and Mexico state alone have about 35 million people out of a country with 107 million. They likely bought 3 million there alone.

[Rony]

And something else I just read in the French newspaper "Le Monde", where they call Mexico, the perfect dictatorship. Apparently, while Peña NIeto (the day of the elections) was leading by 3 or 4 percent, ALL OF A SUDDEN (in the wee hours), it jumped to 7 %, and that is pretty strange if it happens in a very short time span. This is part of the article : --->

Sans même évoquer les nombreuses irrégularités enregistrées lors de la campagne et du scrutin (achat de voix, vote contraint sur les lieux de travail, bourrage d’urnes, dépenses de campagne non déclarées, etc.), l’évolution du décompte des voix lors de la soirée électorale du 1er juillet avait un parfum de déjà vu pour les militants du PRD. Tout au long de la nuit, l’écart entre MM. Peña Nieto et López Obrador demeura stable, aux alentours de 3-4 %. « Jusqu’au petit jour, relate l’analyste Laura Carlsen. La différence s’éleva alors soudain à 7 points, suggérant un sursaut dans les votes de dernière minute en faveur du candidat de tête, un phénomène déjà observé en 2006 lorsque la tendance des votes López Obrador et Calderón s’inversa à la fin du dépouillement (4). »

[Toltepeceno]

Stacks of bought votes going in at the last minute probably..

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501715_162-57466278/accusations-grow-of-vote-buying-in-mexico-election/

"Allegations of vote-buying were not limited to Mexico City, with complaints cropping up in several battleground states. PAN accused Pena Nieto's campaign of acquiring about 9,500 prepaid gift cards worth nearly $5.2 million (71 million pesos) to give away for votes. Authorities said a business had bought that number of cards, but had found no direct evidence of vote-buying. That investigation continues."

At 100 pesos a pop that comes out to about 710,000 votes bought with these cards alone. These cards IN NO WAY were the only things used to buy votesb and in fact I never saw them here just lots of other things. Like Ajijic said, they probably passed 3 million just here and df. This was HIGHLY coordinated.

Different companies supplied different things, along with the unions. These cards were just the tip of the iceberg and up close to 3/4 million votes.

[jimfos]

One evening at a fiesta, I said I thought MX needed a female president to change good old boy syndrome. Women gave me a dose of reality. They said MX is not ready. A woman would be under such a microscope that she could never get anything accomplished due to mud slinging and cultural inertia.

Made me remember a MX movie of the 50's when there was no other party but PRI. Women in small pueblito staged a huelga de piernas cruzadas (strike of crossed legs) because they were not being recognized for their merits, etc. Within a few days the macho men were much changed in their approach and appreciation of women. A woman was even elected mayor.

Then I heard Josefina in an interview. She was talking about "cuchi cuchi" and womens' power to impact MX society. Guess the word didn't get out far enough. Perhaps it will one day. Or life will continue as it has since....... Josefina finished a distant 3rd.

[Rony]

I watched the political debates and one can also wonder if Josefina had it in her.

[Toltepeceno]

I have no doubt if it were a man she would have been second, still beaten by pri's theft but probably closer. It's a shame to get voted against for that reason, I voted for her.

Many also think pan sold out and ran her to lose to pri.

[More Liana]

Many also think pan sold out and ran her to lose to pri.

That's certainly my opinion.

In addition, I believe that Marcelo Ebrard (PRD jefe de gobierno del DF) pulled out of the race early so that he could make a better showing--and probably win the presidency--in 2018. He's a young, very popular, and extremely capable man and will have the next 5+ years to become a household word in the rest of Mexico, not just the DF. You heard it here first.