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Info about housekeeper insurance, IMSS, pension, etc.


kimanjome

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While discussing the differences between the US and Mexico, my housekeeper informed me that there is no such thing as social security, medicare, voluntary private pension contributions for retirement, etc.  In brief: when you are older you have no safety net whatsoever, you are basically a bag lady unless your family takes care of you. 

My housekeeper is self-employed, and I "inherited" her, if you want to call it that, when I moved here. She works p/t for me, between 12-15 hours a week.  

As a self-employed working person she says the only healthcare available to her is the local clinic, for which she has to be there early in the morning (like 5 am) to get in the front of the line, as there are too many people, and it is only the first few in line who are served.  There is only one way for her to obtain IMSS and that is that her employer--ME--has to provide it--she cannot purchase it on her own.

Likewise, there is no way for her to save for her retirement.  She said the government does not allow investment by private citizens, like those of us in the US and Canada can put money into a mutual fund or we can buy a share of McDonalds stock and hold onto it for long term.  She cannot open a bank savings account, the concept of an IRA/ROTH/SEP doesn't exist, etc.  Again, she says only her employer--me--can provide this type of compensation.  

When she told me the cost that my contribution would be--she has a friend who checked on this--I, the employer, would have to pay $65-80 a month to IMSS for healthcare coverage.  Private pension contributions from me would be whatever I wanted them to be about 7% or more, so, say $25 USD or greater.  Then, of course, there is accident insurance coverage to pay.  When I began to add it up, it came to over $100 USD a month for me to pay for a part-time worker of < 60 hours a month.   I am wondering, as a private employer of a part-time worker, if these are reasonable costs, if I could even pay them to begin with, and how much of this is accurate.  In addition, she said I have to go through a Seguro (Insurance Agent) to make all these payments, and unlike in the US, the government has nothing to do with this, it is entirely private. She does no reporting of income to the government, fills out no tax return...it is as if in the government's eyes she doesn't exist. 

Which make me wonder:  instead of being self-employed, would it not be better for her to work for a professional agency that makes those contributions for her?  Granted, she might be taking home less, but on the other hand she would feel much more secure about her future.

Any information is apprieciated!

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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All of it is not accurate. You can find out about IMSS contributions by employers and see that it is a small precentage of the monthly salary for recieving an IMSS pension when a worker is of age to do so, another small per month payment for disability and another small payment per month for medical coverage for her family unit. If she has coverage already with the Seguro Popuar [the clinic she mentioned] then being part time wouldn´t get her into the IMSS [ they can belong to one government socialized medicine plan or the other, not both and it is done by family unit not by individuals] by your payment of a small percentage of the salary of 12 to 15 hours per week. She would need to have employers that can contribute a share for 40 hours per week. All is Mexican Federal Government and none is private as she told you. She is more confused that most about these things and I personally would simply ignore her as a self employed part time worker. Medical coverage at the Seguro Popular is free for her family and as good as the IMSS in quality but just doesen´t have quite as many illness treatments included.

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And if she has Seguro Popular she CANNOT be enrolled in IMSS. I'm sorry but, imho, she is trying to take you for a ride.

What do you mean by "you inherited her?". If you bought a house then she should have received a finiquito from the previous owner and you should have a copy of it. If she has worked for you for less than three months then you can terminate her without a finiquito. But, she and her attitude is raising all kinds of red flags for me as one who will cause you trouble down the road.

And I sincerely hope that you are getting her to sign for her pay and the number of hours that she worked for it. Without that proof, she can say ANYTHING. Be warned.

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Thank you for the detailed information.  It is very helpful!  My first thoughts were that as a part-timer, she may not even be eligible to enroll in some of these programs, which is why it would be more advantageous for her to work full-time for a single employer, as opposed to multiple part-time jobs here and there which offer no benefits. 

And the part about being unable to self-invest didn't seem logical--after all, what country doesn't want its residents to be investing, and less of a future burden? 

I think she has Seguro Popular, but she wants IMSS (hence the extra cost) and what she calls a pension.  And I know in the US a private employer cannot contribute to a pension if an employee doesn't work a minimum of hours or make a minimum income, all of which is reported to the government. I thought it might be similar here.  

I don't believe she is  deceiving me, but I do believe she is highly uninformed as to what an employer can and cannot do.  In her mind, the patron can do practically anything for the employee, it seems almost magical the powers we have.  But then again, is she an employee, or a self-employed individual?  

 

 

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Do be mindful of Ferret's comment re: the finiquito.  Our gardener, whom we retained, was paid over 46K pesos for his finiquito by the seller of our home.  I don't know if household help can go after the new owner of a house if his/her finiquito was not paid by a former owner, but you may want to make some inquiries as to your liability. 

I strongly agree with you on the lack of medical and old age coverage for part-time workers.  We tried to find a reliable yard care company but drew blanks and in the end we retained the gardener.  He works  full-time elsewhere (at a large residential complex) and only 10 hrs. a week for us (and he takes care of the pool).  He is our first household employee despite having owned a home here 2008-2012.  

We never had a housekeeper at other home in Ajijic and do not have one now.  I have used Spring Clean in the past and will again when needed; Leticia covers her workers for IMSS, etc.  

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Yes, when we retained (inherited is not the right word) her she was paid off by her former employer in full, we have all the legal documents from the notario--we were present.

She is a trustworthy and loyal person.  I  believe the saying "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing" applies in her case, and she has mixed fact with fiction and heresay, and arrived at numerous erroneous conclusions. 

 

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1 hour ago, kimanjome said:

Thank you for the detailed information.  It is very helpful!  My first thoughts were that as a part-timer, she may not even be eligible to enroll in some of these programs, which is why it would be more advantageous for her to work full-time for a single employer, as opposed to multiple part-time jobs here and there which offer no benefits. 

And the part about being unable to self-invest didn't seem logical--after all, what country doesn't want its residents to be investing, and less of a future burden? 

I think she has Seguro Popular, but she wants IMSS (hence the extra cost) and what she calls a pension.  And I know in the US a private employer cannot contribute to a pension if an employee doesn't work a minimum of hours or make a minimum income, all of which is reported to the government. I thought it might be similar here.  

I don't believe she is intentionally deceiving me, but I do believe she is uninformed as to what an employer can and cannot do.  In her mind, the patron can do practically anything for the employee.  But then again, is she an employee, or a self-employed individual?  

 

 

Here in Mexico I have read in your situation without her providing a contract as a self employed worker and you and her signing it she would be considered an employee no matter the number of weekly hours worked and not self employed. You are definately supposed to pay her IMSS pension in part per month as I described and she should have all her empoyers paying it also. In your case you have to sign up as a "patrón" [owner] do do it and so would all her employers and she would need reciepts from you and everyone else she works for and an accountant to get it correct by the sounds of her lack of education. You just don´t waltz in as an employer and pay what is not documented. Some friends and family I know here who have 40 to 50 hour per week maids do it. It is not very complicated for full time help evidently for arranging their disability and  their pension and IMSS medical if they need the medical part - seems most don´t as they are married.

The socialized medicine plans in Mexico including IMSS medical are family units only. If a husband has IMSS  the wife doesn´t need to sign up again as she is already enrolled and covered, she can´t, as a matter of fact, sign up 2X for IMSS or in any Mexican government medical plan except private health insurance because he is the head of the household family unit - leaves employers off the hook for her family´s medical payment. If a husband or wife has ISSSTE [Federal Government Employees socialized medicine plan]  again that leaves employers off the hook to pay that employee´s  IMSS medical.

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Let me get this straight: 

1.  As an employer, I am supposed to be contributing a small amount towards her insurance, IMSS, pension, etc. based upon how many hours  she works for me AND how much she earns.

2.  ALL her employers should be doing the same, as in #1, above.

3.  In order for her to be receiving the benefits as listed in #1 she has to have ALL employers complying  with #2, above, AND the employers have to provide documentation, AND she has to work a minimum of 40 hours?

4.  Once all conditions above are met, "we", the collective employers, can apply for her to receive the benefits listed in #1.  Sad to say, but if this is the case, I don't think any of her employers, except me, will follow through with this.

Please correct any of the above where I am unclear. 

 

 

 

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We had a part time maid (3 hrs. on Mon., Wed, Fri.) when we first moved to another city in Mexico.  We didn't know spit, so we didn't know about getting contracts, etc.  Long story, but we were burned by our ignorance.

It sounds a little bit like your maid has either had some bad advice, is relying on rumor or is taking advantage of your own lack of information. (or a bit of all of the above.)  You need to see a lawyer and get the facts, and if you like your maid and want to keep her, there needs to be a contract.  Otherwise, you can terminate her and use the services of Spring Clean, which pays all the employer costs, such as health insurance.  You can have as many or as few hours of cleaners as you need.  No contracts to sign, either. I've used their services for about ten years and am satisfied.

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16 hours ago, kimanjome said:

Let me get this straight: 

1.  As an employer, I am supposed to be contributing a small amount towards her insurance, IMSS, pension, etc. based upon how many hours  she works for me AND how much she earns.

2.  ALL her employers should be doing the same, as in #1, above.

3.  In order for her to be receiving the benefits as listed in #1 she has to have ALL employers complying  with #2, above, AND the employers have to provide documentation, AND she has to work a minimum of 40 hours?

4.  Once all conditions above are met, "we", the collective employers, can apply for her to receive the benefits listed in #1.  Sad to say, but if this is the case, I don't think any of her employers, except me, will follow through with this.

Please correct any of the above where I am unclear. 

 

 

 

Your only obligation is to pay her IMSS pension and disability as a small percentage of her gross wage per month - only your part not others - but as I stated without documentation, not a typed out by you reciept, but a SAT account and some official generated payment recipt that an accountant could figure out. IMSS medical she couldn´t get on 12-15 hours a week proof of work. She can and probaby has Seguro Popular. In other words she is out of luck with the IMSS medical part.

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Thanks, everyone.  I went to yuculandia site and learned that almost everything is contradictory, confusing, and/or complicated.  Even the 2 lawyers contributing had differing opinions.

What is clear is that I am responsible for vacation, aguinaldo, and severance pay of some kind. Fine.

The other stuff: By law I should be contributing towards insurance, disability, etc. BUT it takes a lot of effort and paperwork on my part to do so, as well as official-looking documentation like a weekly pay-stub, etc which I cannot provide, an SAT (which I assume is some kind of tax document like a W-2 or an account with the Mexican government or a social security # or reporting method), all of which needs to go through a bookkeeper or accountant...   

So, we are in a catch-22 situation for which there is no easy answer, except for Angus's response.  

 

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11 minutes ago, kimanjome said:

Thanks, everyone.  I went to yuculandia site and learned that almost everything is contradictory, confusing, and/or complicated.  Even the 2 lawyers contributing had differing opinions.

What is clear is that I am responsible for vacation, aguinaldo, and severance pay of some kind. Fine.

The other stuff: By law I should be contributing towards insurance, disability, etc. BUT it takes a lot of effort and paperwork on my part to do so, as well as official-looking documentation like a weekly pay-stub, etc which I cannot provide, an SAT (which I assume is some kind of tax document like a W-2 or an account with the Mexican government or a social security # or reporting method), all of which needs to go through a bookkeeper or accountant...   

So, we are in a catch-22 situation for which there is no easy answer, except for Angus's response.  

 

I strongly advise advise you to invest in a visit with the local attorney,  Spencer McMullen.  His office is in Chapala and his fees are  reasonable.  He has dealt with these matters many times.  I advise you not to rely on the web boards for legal advice, even from knowledgeable posters.  They won't be there for you if you end up at the Labor Board, which nearly always rules in favor of the worker. 

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I do not think she is playing you at all. She is somewhat miss informed and I am sure she has little education. She sees inequities in the system that unfortunately prevents her from having  healthcare, INFONAIVT and pension contribution and on that she is right. 

Yes she can make contributions for her future but I suspect her first goal is looking after her family and she can barely do that with regards to basics let alone a lifestyle most of the rest of us enjoy. 

http://www.soniadiaz.mx/-employees.html

You say the discussion started with the two of you comparing employee benefits in the US and Mexico which sounds like an honest discussion.  You also say she is honest and trustworthy and you know that better than anyone. Ignore others who are less respectful of her intentions and the heartless. arrogant and uninformed who suggest you termnate her employment which makes me want to vomit. 

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Angus is totally correct. Yuculandia is well noted for bafflegarb and let Sonia vomit. At this point,I would get another maid. If you brought up the topic,it wasn't a very smart thing to do and has now perhaps created problems for you. If she lead you into it,for sure get somebody else but either way you now have a problem where you didn't have one before.

 

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I completely agree with Sonia - including the need to vomit based on some of the responses. You haven't gotten some good advice here but please speak to a lawyer to get the facts straight, the documentation in place, and the stress removed.

There are several good lawyers to help you including Spencer who has been mentioned here a number of times. I haven't personally used him but I have no doubt you will be very happy with his work.

Just to provide another option I have personally used Azucena Bateman - 766-1654 - 16 de Sept. #11 in Ajijic. She helped is with an issue with a gardener and we were very satisfied.

It sounds like you want to understand what you are required to do so you can decide what you want to do. It also sounds like you really like her and want to do the right thing. One of these lawyers can help you understand all the details and help you implement whatever you decide. Please don't terminate her when this issue should be pretty easy to resolve. I admire you taking the time to figure this out.

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Domestic workers are exempt from employer paid IMSS.  While many foreigners have IMSS medical coverage, there still is a way for self employed people to have coverage with retirement, etc.  The IMSS law has changed over the years with the largest change being the law passed in 1997 which cut benefits and raised work requirements.  People who started working and who are subject to the 1973 law will get a pension upon retirement plus any unused portion of their housing account fund.  Those after just get whatever is in their retirement account.

 

There are many different voluntary pension / retirement and annuity plans offered by almost all banks. 

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On 1/30/2018 at 2:38 PM, Intercasa said:

Domestic workers are exempt from employer paid IMSS.  While many foreigners have IMSS medical coverage, there still is a way for self employed people to have coverage with retirement, etc.  The IMSS law has changed over the years with the largest change being the law passed in 1997 which cut benefits and raised work requirements.  People who started working and who are subject to the 1973 law will get a pension upon retirement plus any unused portion of their housing account fund.  Those after just get whatever is in their retirement account.

 

There are many different voluntary pension / retirement and annuity plans offered by almost all banks. 

My ama de casa tells me she has a # de IMSS from employment 25 years ago.  She says her sister works 4 hours a week and receives IMSS. My ama de casa says I do not need an SAT, computerized pay stubs, or any other thing, other than a written contract. It seems she knows the law better than I do.  Also, I am still in the mindset of the US, where the trend is for employers to call their employees self-employed or freelancers, thereby allowing the employer to avoid the cost of paying insurance, disability, pension, etc.

Will seek legal advice. Thanks, everyone.

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