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spectre and Meltdown hacks


BCdoug

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There currently is a lot of buzz about these hacks.    

I searched this forum for "spectre" and "meltdown" and was surprised at no matches

Computer Guy recommends to not apply Microsoft patches or security updates.   On his recommendation, I have turned off  microsoft updates on my desktops.    This newest hack to the OS Kernel microcode seems to be a hot topic.     

I found the Microsoft update, but it also needs updates to the BIOS and I have checked with MSI, Leveno and Gigabyte and no BIOS updates for Intel chips older than 5  years old.  Hence nothing I can do.  I understand that no evidence of use of these hacks has been found, and that no antivirus program can detect these hacks either.     Perhaps, as Computer Guy recommends, nothing needed to be done.   

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My general approach has been for years to avoid updates. It sounds heretical to some, but after witnessing hundreds of pointless system crashes and reinstalls due to largely-untested flaws in the updates, it only makes sense. Each time it happens and I get a call, yes, I make money doing repairs, so you'd think I'd just leave the topic alone. But it irks the heck out of me when computers cause more problems for people than they were designed to solve.

Windows 10 changes the rules, because there really is no way to prevent updates. My own system can be used as an example: a few weeks back, a major update caused my computer to reboot repeatedly, with the infamous Blue Screen of Death. Research on the Web showed this is a massive problem with video-dispaly drivers. In my own case, an earlier BIOS update was now preventing any repairs to this problem, and I had to actually install a new motherboard and CPU... a very expensive fix.

As for the above-mentioned hacks, two things: RickS is correct that the chances of getting hacked are pretty slim, for a variety of reasons. But more importantly, it has been widely reported that the "fixes" in automatic updates provided by Microsoft  and Intel are causing widespread problems by slowing down the operating system by a large percentage. It's also interfering with drivers that keep the system running, and is incompatible with some anti-virus tools (which ones I don't know).

As usual, this is only advice, and the decision to go one way or the other is entirely personal.

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But it can't be a personal decision with Windows 10 and you already stated that in your second paragraph. I've got Windows 10 and I'm not happy with the updates. My computer is slower and my cursor is freezing.

Sometimes I wonder if "updates" for whatever reason (real or imagined) are not a way to push you into buying a new computer. Paranoia... deep destroyer.

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While the last part of my diatribe focused on W10, the overall point as stated in the first sentence, applies. I could have more clearly said "for all other operating systems" it's a personal choice. My intent was to avoid arguments from those who believe every update should be religiously applied, both technical and security. This is only my opinion, based on thousands of actual systems, not on hearsay.

I should add that there are ways to sort of stop updates: https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/how-to-stop-windows-10-update/

Unfortunately, W10 updates are a different concept: MS releases major changes to the operating system this way now, not just fixes. The plan is that there will not be a "Windows 11" or 12, for example, but a series of important updates delivered more-or-less twice a year. So for now, I'm just dealing with it.

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Hmmm! I have had Windows 7 for about 1 1/2 years and it gives notification of updates. If I ignore them and not do it, all kinds of foul things happen to my computer but once I do install them everything is fine again. I don't think I am being paranoid believing Microsoft is doing this on purpose. So obviously I don't have the option of ignoring updates.

 

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29 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

I should add that there are ways to sort of stop updates: https://www.drivereasy.com/knowledge/how-to-stop-windows-10-update/

Unfortunately, W10 updates are a different concept: MS releases major changes to the operating system this way now, not just fixes. The plan is that there will not be a "Windows 11" or 12, for example, but a series of important updates delivered more-or-less twice a year. So for now, I'm just dealing with it.

Kinda like waiting for the other shoe to drop. As in, will there be a fix to fix the fix foul ups. Or can it get any worse. I swear if I ever get to a point where everything is running smoothly again then I will use the above link.

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On 1/22/2018 at 7:52 AM, Ferret said:

 if I ever get to a point where everything is running smoothly again then I will use the above link.

I understand Ferret is dealing with WIN10,    I presume in WIN7, that if I accidentally install MS update for this hack (Meltdown & Spectre) that still have the option to uninstall.     I am doing a Reset of my WIN7 and usually I apply all updates then turn updates off.    Unless I uncheck KB4056894 2018-01 Rollup, , I will accidentally apply the fix could slow down my OS.   

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1 hour ago, BCdoug said:

I understand Ferret is dealing with WIN10,    I presume in WIN7, that if I accidentally install MS update for this hack (Meltdown & Spectre) that still have the option to uninstall.     I am doing a Reset of my WIN7 and usually I apply all updates then turn updates off.    Unless I uncheck KB4056894 2018-01 Rollup, , I will accidentally apply the fix could slow down my OS.   

Yes, you should be able to roll back any individual update in Windows 7. And in fact, block it from arriving again.

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1 hour ago, AngusMactavish said:

Of the four computers in our house, two desktops and two laptops, running Windows 10, not one glitch has been experienced. We have turned off nothing to stop updates.

My one laptop,  was originally Windows 8 (.1 or something) and I upgraded to Windows 10. I also have the "Classic Shell" because I hated the interface of both 8 and 10.

So, my question to you is " Are your computers original with Windows 10 or were they upgrades to Windows 10 from another Windows OS". I'm asking because Windows 8 was hell on wheels too and my problems may stem from that?... dunno. Just wondering.

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1 hour ago, Ferret said:

So, my question to you is " Are your computers original with Windows 10 or were they upgrades to Windows 10 from another Windows OS". 

One desktop was Win7 and I upgraded for free and the other was bought used with Win10 and that had Win7 originally and was upgraded by the original owner, a member here. One of my laptops, actually a notebook, came with Win10, but the other was upgraded to Win10 from Win7. My systems have run flawlessly with the exception of the desktop with a NVIDIA GeForce graphics card that blinked a few times. I think it had a temporary driver problem that soon was corrected by the auto updating maligned in this thread.

 

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Fun perspectives.  Computer guys see the world differently from us home users.  When you work with large networks or repair & maintain a lot of computers, the problems that home users experience only occasionally ... like the very real Win 10 update issues ... become common big headaches for computer experts.   

Like playing just 15 or 20 minutes of blackjack, the game is easy to play with a little luck when dealing with just a few computers, but the odds & reality catch up to those who deal with lots of computers.

In dealing with 25 years of automatic update issues, esp. Windows,  we've kept automatic updates turned off for all that time.  Burned once, twice shy.

 

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3 hours ago, AngusMactavish said:

One desktop was Win7 and I upgraded for free and the other was bought used with Win10 and that had Win7 originally and was upgraded by the original owner, a member here. One of my laptops, actually a notebook, came with Win10, but the other was upgraded to Win10 from Win7. My systems have run flawlessly with the exception of the desktop with a NVIDIA GeForce graphics card that blinked a few times. I think it had a temporary driver problem that soon was corrected by the auto updating maligned in this thread.

 

All I can say to all that is "You've been very lucky". For some reason, you shine as a leading light among the millions and millions and millions of users around the world who have had problems. Enjoy it while you can.

Wait... aren't you the same guy who on another thread about being robbed or beaten said "Just because it hasn't happened to you..."

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57 minutes ago, snowyco said:

Fun perspectives.  Computer guys see the world differently from us home users.  When you work with large networks or repair & maintain a lot of computers, the problems that home users experience only occasionally ... like the very real Win 10 update issues ... become common big headaches for computer experts.   

Like playing just 15 or 20 minutes of blackjack, the game is easy to play with a little luck when dealing with just a few computers, but the odds & reality catch up to those who deal with lots of computers.

In dealing with 25 years of automatic update issues, esp. Windows,  we've kept automatic updates turned off for all that time.  Burned once, twice shy.

 

You seem to be suggesting that I am all for updates, even though my whole pitch is against them. And yes, 95% of my clients are home users who do not have networks, or if they do, consist of a very few computers. No IT nightmare there.

Were I working in a corporation with a large cloud of employees, it would be very different: we would be subscribing to Microsoft's Delayed Update program (or whatever it is called these days), so we could test the updates on stand-alone machines before disseminating them en masse throughout the company, after being satisfied that no problems would result. And every computer would have exactly the same software on it, all built from a single ghosted image, so we would know exactly what is on each machine (other than files). Nothing like having a team of five or 10 IT guys constantly on the go because every employee has personalized their software.

I did contract work for a well-known aerospace company that wouldn't release an update to WordPerfect for 12 months, ever... even though the version I needed fixed an industry-known bug that caused machines to crash several times a day. So the concept can be overdone, too.

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I  day trade a lot which requires a lot of drawing of lines with Sierra Chart.    Lately my drag and drop functionality (using a wireless thumb ball) has been a pain.    I clean ball, check battery, etc. but to no avail.   I haven't reinstalled WIN7 since 2008, so I plan on reinstall WIN7 SP1.      My intent was to apply all MS updates (Office 2010 and WIN7) up to date and then turn off automatic update.    Sounds like I should not apply any updates and see how my WIN7 is operating.   Other than drag and drop, WIN7 has been pretty stable for 10 years.   I realize there are some options that can be applied to drag and drop.    Sierra Chart has an option to allow me to drag the Profit target without holding down the Left Bottom, this helped, but couldn't get WIN7 equivalent to work as well

Question, not applying any updates since WIN7 SP1, is this a good idea.  

the Drag and Drop working poorly, Is this more likely WIN7 or wireless thumb ball (I have cleaned and checked battery) 

My wife has the same WIN7 SP1 and wireless thumb ball, hers is a joy to use when dragging and dropping folders, moving windows, etc.  

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1 hour ago, ComputerGuy said:

You seem to be suggesting that I am all for updates, even though my whole pitch is against them. And yes, 95% of my clients are home users who do not have networks, or if they do, consist of a very few computers. No IT nightmare there.

Were I working in a corporation with a large cloud of employees, it would be very different: we would be subscribing to Microsoft's Delayed Update program (or whatever it is called these days), so we could test the updates on stand-alone machines before disseminating them en masse throughout the company, after being satisfied that no problems would result. And every computer would have exactly the same software on it, all built from a single ghosted image, so we would know exactly what is on each machine (other than files). Nothing like having a team of five or 10 IT guys constantly on the go because every employee has personalized their software.

I did contract work for a well-known aerospace company that wouldn't release an update to WordPerfect for 12 months, ever... even though the version I needed fixed an industry-known bug that caused machines to crash several times a day. So the concept can be overdone, too.


I agree with you, as you fix computers professionally and see what happens when we roll the dice enough times.  Home computer users who quickly download every single update onto just a few machines can sometimes slip through without causing problems for their machines (lucky),  while professionals who have to work with lots of computers face first hand the consequences of automatic updates.

As I wrote:  "Once burned, twice shy."

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48 minutes ago, BCdoug said:

I  day trade a lot which requires a lot of drawing of lines with Sierra Chart.    Lately my drag and drop functionality (using a wireless thumb ball) has been a pain.    I clean ball, check battery, etc. but to no avail.   I haven't reinstalled WIN7 since 2008, so I plan on reinstall WIN7 SP1.      My intent was to apply all MS updates (Office 2010 and WIN7) up to date and then turn off automatic update.    Sounds like I should not apply any updates and see how my WIN7 is operating.   Other than drag and drop, WIN7 has been pretty stable for 10 years.   I realize there are some options that can be applied to drag and drop.    Sierra Chart has an option to allow me to drag the Profit target without holding down the Left Bottom, this helped, but couldn't get WIN7 equivalent to work as well

Question, not applying any updates since WIN7 SP1, is this a good idea.  

the Drag and Drop working poorly, Is this more likely WIN7 or wireless thumb ball (I have cleaned and checked battery) 

My wife has the same WIN7 SP1 and wireless thumb ball, hers is a joy to use when dragging and dropping folders, moving windows, etc.  

Doug, grab a cheap corded mouse just as a test, and see how that works. You will instantly have an answer as to whether it's your trackball.

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2 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

All I can say to all that is "You've been very lucky". For some reason, you shine as a leading light among the millions and millions and millions of users around the world who have had problems. Enjoy it while you can.

Wait... aren't you the same guy who on another thread about being robbed or beaten said "Just because it hasn't happened to you..."

No, not a victim on either count. When I did tech support, I too blamed my failures on Windows.

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