RickS Posted January 12, 2018 Report Share Posted January 12, 2018 ...according to the US State Department http://time.com/5099238/mexico-travel-warning-map/?utm_source=time.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=the-brief&utm_content=2018011211am&xid=newsletter-brief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_d Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Washington DC is a sh*thole. Must be fake news. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMactavish Posted January 14, 2018 Report Share Posted January 14, 2018 Michoacán or Chicago??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 who cares about Chicago we live in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMactavish Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, bmh said: who cares about Chicago we live in Mexico. Me, I care when the US news slam Mexico with crime statistics while ignoring places like Chicago. I would rather walk the streets at night in Morelia than any large city NOB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johanson Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 I can understand both sides of this debate, but I too would like to know the crime statistics in different areas of Mexico compared with say Chicago or GTA or my home town. I guess I would like to know how bad the crime rate really is here. I just know that I feel quite safe at home be I in Seattle or Ajijic or Vancouver Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 Doesn't it really come down to how safe we feel here? Compared to back home? Someone here rightly pointed out last week that comparisons are generally unfair because of the population density of the cities vs. most Mexican towns, so one expects more crime in bigger areas... can we divide out all the paramters to come to a more solid conclusion? Perhaps. Take into consideration the proliferation of organized crime, of gangs, of unhinged citizens, and all that, regardless of US or Mexican city like Chicago, Detroit, Monterrey, or Mexico City. Then derive a figure. There we have street gangs, here we have maybe Granny Gangs. But it's just better here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookj5 Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 In both the US and Mexico, crime tends to be vastly under reported. One thing the US has a lot of and Mexico very little is random mass shootings. USA! We're #1! Over 10 years of living in Portland, OR, I experienced car break-ins and a car theft, a garage burglary with a loss of several hundred dollars of equipment, a drive-by shooting on my street, armed police surrounding the house next door to arrest a couple of young thugs, and death threats from a biker living on the other side of my house. I wasn't living in a bad neighborhood, either. Over 10 years living in Ajijic and traveling all over Mexico, I have experienced one minor home burglary where I lost nothing. During that decade, I have encountered the grand total of two unpleasant Mexicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerbit Posted January 16, 2018 Report Share Posted January 16, 2018 59 minutes ago, cookj5 said: In both the US and Mexico, crime tends to be vastly under reported. One thing the US has a lot of and Mexico very little is random mass shootings. USA! We're #1! Over 10 years of living in Portland, OR, I experienced car break-ins and a car theft, a garage burglary with a loss of several hundred dollars of equipment, a drive-by shooting on my street, armed police surrounding the house next door to arrest a couple of young thugs, and death threats from a biker living on the other side of my house. I wasn't living in a bad neighborhood, either. Over 10 years living in Ajijic and traveling all over Mexico, I have experienced one minor home burglary where I lost nothing. During that decade, I have encountered the grand total of two unpleasant Mexicans. If you hadn't mentioned Portland it sounds just like my NOB neighborhood! LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 The crime rate in Mexico is out of control like it or not. Just because it does not happen to you , does not mean it does not happen. Travelling does not ll you a whole lot about safety if you travel in the right places. I travel a lot too and I have never had any problem so what does that prove? I have plenty of friends who have been shot at and assaulted, and who had family members kidnapped and killed. No I do not think Mexico is safe and yes I believe the crime here is 4 times as bad as in the US which is 3 or 4 times as bad in France but so what I live here not there. I once went to the worst part of Mobile Alabama , where I got lost at night.. could not get out of the place.. stopped to ask for direction to a man who was walking and he told me he could get to the place but he had to go there as it was complicated, he hopped in the car with me and took me there. It was a revival, the women there invited us and he then took me to a bar for a few drinks before putting me on my way. The place was on Saint Stevens Road.. an infamous place for its crime, the worst in the black section of town , that was in July 70. Everyone was super nice to me.. does that mean that the area is safe , I do not think so.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, bmh said: I have plenty of friends who have been shot at and assaulted, and who had family members kidnapped and killed. Well, I sure won't be hangin' out with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 hours ago, bmh said: The crime rate in Mexico is out of control like it or not. Just because it does not happen to you , does not mean it does not happen. Travelling does not ll you a whole lot about safety if you travel in the right places. I travel a lot too and I have never had any problem so what does that prove? I have plenty of friends who have been shot at and assaulted, and who had family members kidnapped and killed. No I do not think Mexico is safe and yes I believe the crime here is 4 times as bad as in the US which is 3 or 4 times as bad in France but so what I live here not there. I once went to the worst part of Mobile Alabama , where I got lost at night.. could not get out of the place.. stopped to ask for direction to a man who was walking and he told me he could get to the place but he had to go there as it was complicated, he hopped in the car with me and took me there. It was a revival, the women there invited us and he then took me to a bar for a few drinks before putting me on my way. The place was on Saint Stevens Road.. an infamous place for its crime, the worst in the black section of town , that was in July 70. Everyone was super nice to me.. does that mean that the area is safe , I do not think so.. Well said, bmh. You know what you are talking about because you spend most of your time involved with Mexicans, whereas those who "claim" Mexico is the safest place they have ever lived close their eyes and do their non Mexican thingy here. Anyone who wants to compare Chapala to Chicago in any way is lacking understanding. Sadly, they will never understand this type of comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Most often it is the Mexicans who are the victims, not an expat. Outside of a random mugging or a burglary I just do not recall many expats who have been targeted for a murder or a kidnapping. So why do the local expat web boards always light up with crime news when the expats are seldom targeted for violent crimes? Criminals here have little interest in expats because in their mind the expats are on a pension of maybe $1500/month. Compare that to what the ransom is for a wealthy Mexican family member that usually starts at 5,000,000+ MXN. Also, some of the local criminals feel that the family of an expat would not pay the ransom anyway because expats from some countries are not known to value family the same as the Mexicans in their culture. A Mexican family will sell everything they own in a heartbeat to obtain the release of a family member. Expats on the other hand may just stall enough to crunch the numbers and then decide that if they do not pay the ransom then the pie just got bigger for them. As an American expat you may well be safer in Mexico than in the US. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 minute ago, Kiko said: Most often it is the Mexicans who are the victims, not an expat. Outside of a random mugging or a burglary I just do not recall many expats who have been targeted for a murder or a kidnapping. So why do the local expat web boards always light up with crime news when the expats are seldom targeted for violent crimes? Criminals here have little interest in expats because in their mind the expats are on a pension of maybe $1500/month. Compare that to what the ransom is for a wealthy Mexican family member that usually starts at 5,000,000+ MXN. Also, some of the local criminals feel that the family of an expat would not pay the ransom anyway because expats from some countries are not known to value family the same as the Mexicans in their culture. A Mexican family will sell everything they own in a heartbeat to obtain the release of a family member. Expats on the other hand may just stall enough to crunch the numbers and then decide that if they do not pay the ransom then the pie just got bigger for them. As an American expat you may well be safer in Mexico than in the US. You are dreaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Just now, Hud said: You are dreaming. Show me the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComputerGuy Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 The facts are that most kidnappings result in perhaps a few thousand or even simply hundreds of pesos. The facts are that $1,500 US a month is a gold mine for a villager here. The facts are that gringos in this town are a constant target of burglary. The facts are that bulletin boards "light up" because people like you go for drama. The facts are you are talking out of (a dark place) when you dream up a statement like " expats from some countries are not known to value family the same as the Mexicans in their culture." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I only recall one expat in this area who was kidnapped and that was because he stumbled upon some criminals when hiking six years ago. He was released unharmed the following day without ransom paid. I can recall about 5 expat murders in this area in 11 years and 3 were botched burgurlaries. One was an expat on expat crime and one was a drug deal gone bad. Dozens of Mexicans are kidnapped or murdered every year at lakwside. Most violent deaths of expats in Mexico are car accidents not murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rckrckr Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 "Dozens of Mexicans are kidnapped or murdered every year at lakwside [sic]. " Really? As you said before, "show me the facts". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 Well in 2012 about 38 locals were kidnapped and half of them murdered at lakeside. That news is readily available if you do a search. I knew 6 of the victims. I have known personally 6 Mexicans who were kidnapped in Joco in 2017. I have personally known 4 more that were murdered in 2017. Once again all Mexican nationals and no expats. Expats have not been targeted. Most of these crimes are not reported so if you do not know your town or your neighbors then most likely you will not be aware of the crimes committed. If there are any facts that show that expats are suffering the same level of violence in Mexico as the Mexican nationals are, then "show me the facts." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 On the street where we live if I look at the 5 neighbors around us or rather the owners of the houses around us 4 out of 5 are Mexicans One had her grand-son kidnapped, never found and the other had his father kidnapped , money was given and the neighbor ´s father was ok. These people are Tapatios and their family member was taken in Guadaljara. I am not going to go into the people I know where kidnapped and kill. yes the Mexicans are the victims and crime is awful Just because expats are not targeted now does not mean the place is safe.. It is safe right now who know tomorrow. Actually when the kidnappings started in Ajijic my friends were witnessed to the first one. That one happend to the 2 guys delivering milk to Torito and Salvador. It was a 3 Hermanos truck. The 2 guys were kidnapped, at gun point in frot of the people who sell rugs. They ran to Salvador and called the police. The police came and started asking questions and they told them to run after the truck that had entered Floresta. The police went to find the truck and stopped it in front of the place where they rent horses. Called back the policeman who had stayed with the people who had called to tell them everything was fine and that they were with hte 3 guys and that everything was ok. They were told that the guys who were saying that were the criminals so they opened the truck and found the 2 delivery guys tied up and gaged. The criminal had just made a phonne call saying " do not worry we have them and are going to the hills".. The 2 delivery guys were overjoyed.. The people who called were petrified the gang would go after them.. AFter that the rumors started that people were disappearing .. and you know the rest of the story.. One expat was kidnapped, his dog killed and the expat left the country to go back to Belgium. I live in Seis Esquinas and know many of the people from the area who were killed including the young guy who made keys next to Torito, he was kidnapped and tortured and kulled because his ex´s sister owed money to the cartel and on and on.. By the way the botched kidnapping never made the news.. if it had people could have connected the dots way faster.. I know many families in CHiapas who have lost family members as well.. If anything crime is way under reported.. The curandero from the plaza where i live down there . disappeared, two artisans who come to the feria lost family member after having paid the moeny.. none of those kidnapping were reported.. Do not believe that only well off people are targets, in Chiapas the vast majority of the people kidnapped for money ae the migrants.. The gangs know they have to have money to cross so they robb them and then blackmail the failies for money. All of these people are from poor background. RCKRCKR do you speak Spanish, do you know Mexicans and do you speak with them? Kiko is correct, I know many Mexicans who have been murdered and or kidnapped in this area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 I do not believe expat value their family less than Mexicans but the money would have to come outside of Mexico and that slows down things and complicate life.. The facr is that the Mexicans or Central Americans have a large network of family that will help.. I know a man who was kidnapped as he went to Mexico to buy fertilizer and other products for farms in his village. He was from Paraiso, Venustiano Carranza Chiapas. He left with the money from the ejido and never came back. His family was contacted and the whole town gave money but they came 20 000 pesos short. I found out about the kidnapping because a small store in Santa Teresita Guadalajara was trying to sell a very expensive heirloom from that area.. The owner of the store told me that it was to help pay up for a ransom of a man in Venustiano Carranza. I recognized the work and call the family. ..After the first batch of money was sent they never heard from the kidnappers again and the mother of hte man was the one selling her wedding clothes.. They tried to reach the kidnappers again but nevr got an answer and the man never came back.. In that case obviousy someone knew the man was coming with a lot of cash, , the man was probably killed rightaway and then the kidnappers asked for more cash wich they received minus the 20 000.. The village is very poor .. who would have thought someone from there would have been a target.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiko Posted January 17, 2018 Report Share Posted January 17, 2018 ^^^ I do not believe that expats value their family less than Mexicans in general,.. I do believe that the family values of some expats in comparison with the culture in Mexico are along different lines. For example, many times I have been asked by Mexicans ..>> "Why do you gringos put your parents and grandparents in nursing homes...?" And this one..>> "Why do you gringos kick your children out of the home after high school...? Difficult to explain what I mean here on the internet. But maybe those two examples add a little clarity to what I meant in the earlier post. Mexican families are extremely close, or at least the ones I know. Anyway, I am way off topic here, so I will just move on so the thread can go back on course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmh Posted January 18, 2018 Report Share Posted January 18, 2018 It is just a differnt way of life partly due to economics and also because of the culture being different. The families I know have plenty of problems and fights but they tend to stay together because they do not have the money to separate. Even in the indigenous families I know people build separate houses for parents and children when they have the money. They tend to stay close to each other because often they share work and tasks but when they have the money they build separate places. People fight like cats and dogs and there is a lot of violence amongst families. I know very few women that have not been beaten up at least once and many times on a regular basis. I would not put one culture on a pedestal compare to the other, they are just different . Also as there is very little social net here so the family is is the net. Humans are humans.. The Chines in San Francisco had a tradition of taken care of the elders but when they found out they could put their parents in homes they did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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