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Ajijic Charro Ring last two sundays


HarryB

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Be clear about what you are supporting Travis:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html

Quote

It doesn't take much time to damage your hearing at a sports bar or nightclub. According to the WHO, "exposure to noise levels of 100 dB, which is typical in such venues, is safe for no more than 15 minutes."

Simple calculation shows that if the noise level was 85db three blocks away, it was over 100 at the site.

No one gets disappeared from this site for having differing opinions so stop pretending otherwise.  This site doesn't tolerate personal attacks/libel.  Differing opinions are welcome with that caveat.

As I suspected, you weren't anywhere near while this was going on so, also respectfully, I'll suggest you don't have the first hand experience that me and my neighbors had with these increasingly loud and frequent commercial concerts at the Lenzo.

Had you actually been here in the neighborhood, it would have been clear that (1), it was conducted for profit at ear damaging levels and (2) it was conducted largely for the benefit of outsiders by outsiders.  Admission to these things isn't free or cheap.

Sorry but I don't see these concerts as anything having to do with either supporting the local community or Mexican culture.  Those concerts are put on for free as part of local celebrations and usually done at the plaza.

As for the rest of your post making personal comments, kindly keep them to yourself.  Consider the possibility that making personal comments suggest one's arguments are weak.

The truth is the larger Mexican community is enacting laws against noise pollution and beginning to enforce them around the country and right here in Jalisco.   Hopefully at some point our Mexican neighbors will elect a local government that puts the local community first and the peddlers of loud, ear damaging noise last.

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37 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Be clear about what you are supporting Travis:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/health/hearing-loss-loud-music/index.html

Simple calculation shows that if the noise level was 85db three blocks away, it was over 100 at the site.

No one gets disappeared from this site for having differing opinions so stop pretending otherwise.  This site doesn't tolerate personal attacks/libel.  Differing opinions are welcome with that caveat.

As I suspected, you weren't anywhere near while this was going on so, also respectfully, I'll suggest you don't have the first hand experience that me and my neighbors had with these increasingly loud and frequent commercial concerts at the Lenzo.

Had you actually been here in the neighborhood, it would have been clear that (1), it was conducted for profit at ear damaging levels and (2) it was conducted largely for the benefit of outsiders by outsiders.  Admission to these things isn't free or cheap.

Sorry but I don't see these concerts as anything having to do with either supporting the local community or Mexican culture.  Those concerts are put on for free as part of local celebrations and usually done at the plaza.

As for the rest of your post making personal comments, kindly keep them to yourself.  Consider the possibility that making personal comments suggest one's arguments are weak.

The truth is the larger Mexican community is enacting laws against noise pollution and beginning to enforce them around the country and right here in Jalisco.   Hopefully at some point our Mexican neighbors will elect a local government that puts the local community first and the peddlers of loud, ear damaging noise last.

Yes of course the next election will be fought on this premise and is top of mind awareness for all the voters here.

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Perhaps the most hotly debated subject on this forum is whether a situation is "part of Mexican culture" or is something entirely different, such as an outside entity bringing a noisy event into town for profit.   We need to sort this out in our heads before holding forth on the subject.

I've been here long enough to be sure enough that the ear splitting fireworks and general chaos currently going on in town are, indeed, "part of Mexican culture", enhanced by modern sound equipment.

An ear-splitting "concert" is quite another matter and I hope we aren't stuck with them as an ongoing happening.

Happy Thanksgiving.

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11 hours ago, Travis said:

But I've learned, with respect, of course,  there's no point in discussing or debating anything with you. You control all of the levers and switches on Chapala.com. And you're always right.

Lastly, I hope you find a way to make peace with the local noise you'll never be able to change or make go away. Perhaps the famous quote below will help you. I hope so.

I'm leaving this up as a very good example of the kind of personal comment that some seem to resort to when they can't tolerate different opinions and/or they can't effectively make their own countering arguments without getting personal.

The owners of this board have charged the moderating team first and foremost with making this site a safe space for the free exchange of information and ideas, with some restrictions.  One does not have to look far locally to see what happens when personal attacks are tolerated on local message  boards. 

It is true that if one can't tolerate difference of opinion or post here without getting personally nasty, this is probably not a suitable site for their participation.  That is a decision you'll have to make for yourself, Travis.  Please do not make further posts along the lines of the quote above in the future, thanks.

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At our Guanajuato City home, we see a fairly large difference in noise levels and how late loud music is played. And we have far more outdoor events there, with local, state, national and international performers. Music outdoors ends around 10:30 / 11PM. We belong to Vecinos Alerta , a neighborhood WhatsApp group and are maybe 2 of 4 possible expats in a neighborhood. Noise complaints are a hot topic here and cops are called frequently to shut down house parties, our neighbors work, they like to get their sleep. Now cohetes are a different story, harder to pin point the location and timing of the launch point. But worst we dealt with was St Michaels fest. And our Mexican neighbors debated that as well. Even read a history lesson on the use of cohetes to communicate events to far away villages. In short, noise isn't necessarily appreciated in GTO by all Mexicans. 

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4 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

As I suspected, you weren't anywhere near while this was going on so, also respectfully, I'll suggest you don't have the first hand experience that me and my neighbors had with these increasingly loud and frequent commercial concerts at the Lenzo.....Had you actually been here in the neighborhood...

Huh? What you talking about? For six and a half years I lived in the house directly behind yours, closer to the Charro Ring than you. Since then, I've lived just as close, but above the carretera, well within earshot. If anything, for ten years I've been hearing it as loud or more loudly than you. Sound travels up.

And in an effort to reduce any further distorting of fact, exactly where in my post did I ever suggest I "support" the noise? (Your word.) That's right, I didn't.

I simply tolerate it and understand there is nothing I can do. You can't and don't.

With all due respect, goodbye.

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Today I had a chance to talk to my maid about these recent fiesta noise concerns.  It greatly helps to speak Spanish and talk to Mexicans directly about community issues.  My opinions on this board regarding the noise have always taken into account the feelings of my MX neighbors whose input and friendship I value.  

According to my maid, the extra days of the fiesta are being paid for by "rich" Mexican Americans who are from here, and are returning with $$$  for vacation, and wanted to expand the fiesta dates because 9 nights just wasn't enough for them.  So, evidently, they did go through the church and paid for extra evenings of the fiesta just like the local trade guilds do.  I am a little shocked at this, I've never heard of such a thing.  I was shocked to hear the  loud banda last night on the 21st, one of the more mediocre ones, if you ask me.  Usually the Fiesta starts more quietly on the 22nd which is actually the Feast Day of Saint Cecelia, patron saint of music, and she is honored with a more classical, low key type of performance.  Then, gradually, the fiesta nights grow a little louder and bigger until the 30th, after which the whole town is glad it's over - and because the Guadalupe Fiesta will be starting up on Dec. 3 in the west side of town ending on Dec. 12, Guadalupe Day, an unofficial holiday in MX because she is the patron saint of the whole country.

What has been going on at the Lienzo is a whole other story... just more commercialism and overkill if you ask me and others.  Like 4 continuous weeks of Fiesta is not enough...

My maid also mentioned the obvious compliance (or promotion?) of the Chapala govt. for the permit money, of course.  She said this noise problem could be an issue in upcoming elections with some unknown (as yet) person running on a platform of a more "tranquil" pueblo.  I hope so!  The overall incidence of excessively loud noise went up dramatically when the current administration came into power.  We foreigners are not allowed to actually vote or support any candidate publicly, but we are certainly able to weigh in on community issues. 

The Mexicans whom I have talked to -either living in my neighborhood near the Lienzo, or near the Plaza, all have expressed distaste over how LOUD the bandas are getting every year.  With my nearly 20 years experience in show business working with amplified sound, I still maintain that the noise problem is one of great misuse of new and evolving sound technology which was never meant to be operated by people with little or no technical experience.  Very simply, the equipment they are using would be suitable for a major stadium, not a small town bull ring or plaza.  What a waste of money!!  The loud noise travels over an area that would accommodate maybe 50,000 - 100,000 people if there were actual seating in place.  The Lienzo and the Plaza actually can hold 1-2000 people.  That  alone should determine the size of the sound equipment.  The entire town does NOT want to have this noise blasted into their/our homes!!

A GOOGLE TRANSLATION FROM THE SEMINARIO LAGUNA (What a scoop, when I tried to find out what bandas were scheduled to play what nights, I was always told it was a secret).    "As regards the big stage, for the day of the people in general (November 23), the presentation of a versatile group has been confirmed. The day of the farmers (November 27), Banda Perla Azul or La Cueskitos. The day of the gardeners (November 29), presentation of Banda Estrellas de Jalisco, and for November 28, day of the guild of construction, is intended to bring the singer Bruno de JesusOn the other hand, apparently the Absent Children will hire a local band "so that the money stays in the town". On November 21, the first day of the fiesta, the Rochín Hernández family will hire the band Caramelo or Estrella Fugaz.

On a more upbeat note - I'm trying to find the fun in this situation - Bruno de Jesus has always been one of my favorite banda singers, here is a video of his from about 7 years ago.  Before that he sang with Los Cuisillos.  How many of you know who they are?   I don't think Bruno has the bleach blond long hair anymore, but he is very cool:

 

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  4 hours ago, Travis said:

Huh? What you talking about? For six and a half years I lived in the house directly behind yours, closer to the Charro Ring than you. Since then, I've lived just as close, but above the carretera, well within earshot. If anything, for ten years I've been hearing it as loud or more loudly than you. Sound travels up.

And in an effort to reduce any further distorting of fact, exactly where in my post did I ever suggest I "support" the noise? (Your word.) That's right, I didn't.

I simply tolerate it and understand there is nothing I can do. You can't and don't.

With all due respect, goodbye.

That may be but you informed us you moved away from here 3 years ago.  We are not talking about three years ago, we are discussing less than three weeks ago.  Where you lived three years ago is irrelevant to this discussion.  You haven't been living here in this neighborhood for this current round of concerts at the Lenzo or those of the last several years.  Please, let's be clear about the timeline here.

We can debate what a "rave" is.  The concert I was referring to was held where now there are new playing fields, not at the Lenzo.  They had to tear down the front wall to get their stage and sound equipment in.  It went on for over 12 hours with many bands at ear splitting levels.  There was only lawn seating and the event was characterized by packs of people wandering in and out of the grounds and more of the drinking and drugging which went on over at Seis Esquinas.  Call it what you like, that was no normal length or set up concert.  And not only did the organizers not repair the wall, the area was heavily littered for some blocks around.  From what you describe it doesn't sound like you were here for that event either.

La Floresta raised quite a stink over that one and it definitely helped to prevent more of same.  We in the neighborhood greatly appreciated their stepping up and doing something rather than just "tolerating" the noise.  

You're right about that next to the last sentence.  Some chose to "tolerate" or give up without trying, some chose to address problems and work to improve the community.  

Had we of the expat AND Mexican community taken the former approach, we would still be having raves or whatever you chose to call them.  Had some of us and the local garden club tolerated graffiti pollution, this town would still be covered with it.  Had others simply looked away from the plight of the street animals here, there would be far more of them and far more deaths among them.  Had others ignored the plight of abandoned and sick children, things would be much worse for them. 

Those new noise laws in GDL didn't happen because people just gave up and tolerated abusively loud noise.  They happened because people, Mexican people, stood up and demanded change.  And they are getting it.

We who participate in these and many more activities that seek to improve life here do not automatically "understand" we can't do anything.  I invite you and anyone else to consider the possibility that we can all make a difference in this community, whether it be fighting noise, graffiti, litter and other forms of pollution, helping the needy folks and animals.  If one steps up with the understanding you will win some and lose some there is great satisfaction to be had in the ones one wins and the difference one makes.  Human progress and a more livable community are not about going around assuming one can't improve things without even trying.

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