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Casa de Musicos - there goes the neighborhood


court0503

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New place on La Paz , SAT below the plaza  A private home recently turned club —the loudspeakers being used there are insane! , I’d ask how this could possibly happen but we all know the answer.  Im a block away and I feel so sorry for the families living immediately around them -everything in their houses must be shaking ! Also there’s no parking so visiting cars are parked all along the narrow street leaving no spaces for residents . Such a shame for this quiet little street 

(Im grateful though that tonight at least the music is pretty good - since there’s no escaping it )

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Unfortunately this sort of thing is going to go on, and probably get worse, in this municipio unless/until the local voters stop voting for the same corrupt bunch of easily bought off hacks.  Indeed, since both Zopopan and GDL are cracking down on it, it may get worse as the noise makers find they can easily get away with it here.

Doesn't matter how late they play.  Who wants someone else's "music" reverberating around their formerly residential neighborhood at any hour?

I'm really disappointed with Tony here.  He's been a real asset to San Antonio.  What in the world is he thinking?

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Have they been reported to the ecology department?

Has anyone checked with the licensing office to see if they have a licence?

Has anyone checked with Hacienda to see if they are paying taxes?

Don't damn the administration until you are sure they aren't doing their jobs.

They can then be denounced for not enforcing the law. Ministerio Publico comes to LCS with english speaking prosecutors.

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Well Harry, remember how they were going to put a stop to the illegally loud rave type concerts at the Lenzo Charro?  Well guess what, we had one there last Sunday night until nearly 2PM.  Police were called, nothing happened.  Same old same old and on a Sunday night when people have to get up and go to work and kids have to go to school the next morning.

Aside from the incredible noise, Revolution was covered in trash the next day and of course you didn't see the Lenzo out there cleaning it up.  It sat there until the Wednesday market folks cleaned itup.

Sorry but I look at our trashy and potholed streets, the granting of totally inappropriate permits like those high rises in La Floresta and that "hotel" at the end of Independencia and I don't have a lot of confidence that we are going to get much from the governments we have been ending up with here for the last 9 years or so.

I saw a picture of the stage and sound system at this place, it is totally insane in that location.  I just can't imagine what Tony is thinking with this.  Really, really disappointing.

 

 

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11 hours ago, court0503 said:

New place on La Paz , SAT below the plaza  A private home recently turned club —the loudspeakers being used there are insane! , I’d ask how this could possibly happen but we all know the answer.  Im a block away and I feel so sorry for the families living immediately around them -everything in their houses must be shaking ! Also there’s no parking so visiting cars are parked all along the narrow street leaving no spaces for residents . Such a shame for this quiet little street 

(Im grateful though that tonight at least the music is pretty good - since there’s no escaping it )

Is this at #59?

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Local government is useless.  We had an issue with a client, loud music 4am in front of police station, police and judge didnt care they said ecology, ecology said they needed to see it, gave cell #s but turned off at night.  Maybe if you call the #PRICheerleader and wake her up then she may be forced to act

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1 hour ago, Intercasa said:

Local government is useless.  We had an issue with a client, loud music 4am in front of police station, police and judge didnt care they said ecology, ecology said they needed to see it, gave cell #s but turned off at night.  Maybe if you call the #PRICheerleader and wake her up then she may be forced to act

Who is this "cheerleader" and what is her number???

Having survived 8 solid noise/years between El Barco and Plaza Bugambilia, I advise the following.  The neighbors MUST organize together and this probably will required that the gringos speak Spanish.  Few Mexicans are aware of the Federal Ley de Sonido (Sound Law) and resist complaining about the noise because they don't have any faith in the govt. to do anything about it, thinking that the inspectors will simply be paid a bribe or a "permit extension" fee, which is probably true, and then they don't do anything about it. 

However, if Chapala AND the Licensing boss, Hugo Herrera 331 043 3772, get swamped with calls, they might get the picture and act because they will get tired of all the complaints.  Call them WHILE the noise is happening so they can hear it over your phones, especially a land line, which shows that you are indeed inside your own house.  Many Mexicans are reluctant to sign petitions because they are afraid of retribution.  Write out the above name and number and pass it out to at least 5 neighbors and tell them to pass it along to their friends and family nearby.  Convince them that working in numbers works!  If they don't officially complain nothing will ever change.  This strategy has proved reasonably fruitful with El B. and Plaza B. resulting in changes.   Too bad if it wakes up someone, they need to feel the pain from those who are so negatively affected by such egregious noise.

Actually, the first step the neighbors could take would be to visit the place as a group and chat directly with the owner, whom they should already know.  If that is not fruitful, then apply the above, rinse, and repeat as necessary.

Ironically, the owner of this new place in SA is the surviving husband of a gringa who died a couple years ago.  We were friends and comadres in the noise issue!  Her big gripe in SA was the Rosary being recited over very loudspeakers from the church every AM at 7:30.  She had mentioned that her husband was a musician but not very experienced, not a regular pro.  Hence, the ignorance regarding sound issues.

I went to a Dem Abroad lecture there and the sound system for the speakers was small and appropriate (and they actually had to be told to turn it up!!).  However, an introductory speaker actually fell while going up a few steps to the stage, the wooden steps were not even nailed down and tipped over under his weight.  Fortunately, he was not hurt, but that shows how shoddy the construction is there.  But, the place is completely open air and I wondered how the neighbors were going to survive any large or regular events.  

I have almost 20 years of experience working with amplified sound in the 70s and 80s as a house band singer (full time gigs) and a dancer in world class production shows.  I have been completely shocked at the full scale ignorance of the sound technology here.  It is relatively new here, unlike in the US where amplified sound was invented and has been used for over 80 years.  We NEVER had sound problems because everyone was an experienced professional who knew the drill.  Here, no one does. 

The Noisemakers are actually a relatively small group of people who play with sound equipment as if it were a toy, and do not even understand the most basic law of sound which is that sound waves travel and affect people at a distance.  All entertainment venues are soundproofed up north, but in MX, every structure is open air and constructed of concrete, producing an echo chamber effect which makes the noise even louder.  Actually, amplified sound is completely incompatible with Mexican architecture and building for that reason, which is why there are ongoing problems with the noise.  No one here understands the technicalities much less the aesthetics of sound engineering.  

It just so happened that ezpz met a nationally known Mexican sound engineer in San Miguel while a huge soundstage was being set up in the central plaza there - a special event paid for by the government to do something "positive" for the young people.  There was a crew of around 20 guys setting up huge equipment suitable for an audience of oh, 20,000 people (when there was an actual turnout of maybe 500).  We had a long and mutually enjoyable conversation regarding the sound issues in MX.  He invited me to his sound check, which took hours, for a 1 hour performance of a moderately famous rock band.  I laughed and told him Tlaloc, the Aztec Rain God, was going to get them if they were too loud, and it did rain.  He wanted to cancel the show before it even started because the rain was already affecting the equipment.  They were done by 11 and it was not too bad.  ezpz greatly enjoys such serendipitous encounters  :P  It really helps break the ice with people here if you speak reasonable Spanish.  Here is one of my fotos from that...

If you want to see how Mexicans really feel about the noise, visit the FB page of cruzadacontraelruido from Guadalajara, which now has well over 24,000 likes.  People are mad as hell about the noise and aren't going to take it anymore.

https://www.facebook.com/CruzadaContraElRuido/

 

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I tell people to call 911 so it can be recorded and if 911 gets sick of it maybe they will nag the authorities to do their job

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Oh, yes, the banda concerts...  I can hear it well from my house.  Every Sunday in November there are pre-fiesta banda concerts leading into the San Andres Fiesta on the last 9 days of the month which will feature bandas every night, sometimes overlapping with the Sunday bandas, so half of the town will hear both of them at the same time.  Can you spell O V E R K I L L?  This is #2 out of 4.  Still waiting to hear how loud the headliner act will be - last week it was awful - again!  Mon., Nov. 20 is a legal holiday - Revolution Day.

We had a big problem with this noise a couple of years ago when an outside "promoter" from Joco rented the Lienzo for 3 nights in Nov. and they were so loud everyone, even die hard banda fans like my maid, were saying it was too loud.  I thought that got resolved - last year wasn't bad, but here they are again.  The sound check today was total chaotic incompetence.   The paying audience should not have to hear all that crap, much less the non-paying neighbors!

My new sound engineer friend above clued me in on some of the inner workings of these concerts.  He said that the famous groups get it written into their contracts to have "state of the art" equipment - but why so big?  I also wondered about the bottom line of these concerts.  The one in San Miguel was sponsored by the govt. and free to the public.  I pointed out to New Friend that this never could have happened in an open free-market situation.  That soundstage alone must have cost a fortune what with 20 crew members to set it up and tear it down plus the actual group playing.  It's doubtful whether this concert could have taken place in a free market.

Here, I wonder about the bottom line of these banda concerts.  You have 3 bands with average of 15 musicians in each banda - 45 musicians to pay PLUS a crew of maybe 20.  You're talking paying 65 or so people - and they didn't even have a clean up crew???  Not sure of the capacity of the Lienzo, or how full it actually is.  Let's say - audience of 1000 people at $160pesos/ticket according to the posters around town = $160,000 intake / 65 contractors to pay plus rental of facility... don't know exact figures, but I don't see how they can make it.  So, why does it continue?  The bandas are a much loved tradition here, but they have gotten louder over the years because of this equipment issue.

I think the obvious solution to the problem is for the bandas to simply use much smaller equipment and save money and not be so loud.  Brass bands are already naturally loud, only the singers actually need amplification.  The 2nd law of sound is that you tailor your sound to the venue you are actually playing in. But no one here has ever even heard of that principal.  So, in a Lienzo with a capacity of 1000-2000 people, you don't need a stadium size PA system, duh????  

When I moved here 10 years ago, I really enjoyed the banda videos on MX cable.  Next week's headliner is Banda Pequenos Musical, who did one of my favorite banda tunes, a big hit 10 years ago.  I hope they still sound this good.

 

 

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That is truly insane. I, too used to work in pro audio in the 80's. I tell you, though that ignorance was also common back in Canada then, and I am sure it still exists in places. Example: I had been responsible for installing a brand new PA system for a new club. I had to be there opening night in case something went wrong. The bands' sound man started his sound check with the drums, and brought up the volume until all the amp clipping lights came on. Then he kept the faders there and brought up the rest of the band. Want to guess how it sounded? I tried to give the guy a hint, talking about dynamic range, but some people just seem to prefer quantity over quality. :-( Maybe it just a macho thing. I know I'm always horrified when I walk into WalMart and see those stacks of '2000Watt'  speakers selling for $2000. And we thought the 'ghetto blasters' of 40 years ago were bad...

My sympathies to those affected.

 

Pete

 

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Tony has lots of money... He's just getting started in the entertainment business .  Hopefuuly he wil soon start having some some good old rock & roll there.. We need more music and dancing venues around Lakeside.. With the recent influx of people the bars/dance locations are getting to crowded....  Just try getting a table at Adelita's on Monday nights...

 

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8 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

Absolutely.  I think you should find someone to open one across the street from where you live so you won't have to go far for your entertainment and when you don't feel like going out you can "enjoy" listening to the noise, er music, right there in your own home.

:D

 

That would be great because then I would have 2 places I could walk home from...

I can see El Barco from our balcony, If I don't walk down the hill to attend the event I can still sit out on the balcony and enjoy the music....Did anyone hear it yesterday (Sunday) afternoon.. ?..  

In my MHO one of the reasons so many people are making Lakeside their home now is for the entertainment,  They want to spend their golden years somewhere that doesn't roll up the carpet and turn off the lights at 8:30 every night....

 

 

 

 

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Hey maybe you can get them to turn it up louder so you can enjoy it in your living room and bedroom too.  That way you wouldn't have to sit outside when it is chilly like at 1AM in the morning.

As for the rest, I think you'd be well advised to check with the neighbors before you invite a honky tonk to your block.  You might have misgauged their love of over amplified, amateurish, played too late music.  They might string you up.  :D

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OMG, que no-o-o-o!!!  Newbies here aren't aware of the Sonic Reign of Terror from El Barco between 2010 and 2014.  I lived near there and it was absolutely horrible - the worst groups I have ever heard (both gringo and Mexican) blasted as loud as last night's banda concert right into my house, like torture.  The bandas are far better musicians than those amateur hacks.  That is how I got started getting neighborhood consensus.  I speak Spanish and talked to my neighbors and we all hated the noise and became friends around this issue.  We managed to organize and get changes after 4 long years.  I live here full time and heard that **** "jam band around 200 times -always playing the same boring old tunes because none of them could play any thing else like Beatles or Motown.  Only the most elementary 50s rock and fake blues tunes.  Pure torture.  I guess if you are drunk enough you don't care.  But the neighbors do!  And if you live near El B and enjoy what you hear from your house, please be aware that before, it was 10 times louder, you would be screaming too!  And they do have better bands now than in the past.

Around the time that El B. settled down and made some changes for the better, Plaza Bugambilia (I live closer to there now) decided to install an outdoor rooftop bar on their 3rd floor which featured the worst entertainment, also, it's like Plaza B. and El B. were in a race to the bottom.  Plaza B used to have karaoke up there with the vocal mike turned up as loud as the bandas from the lienzo with these off-key drunks screaming into the mike until 3 or 4 in the morning.  Complaints were rolling in from blocks away from Mexicans.  Other times they had cluelessly horrible rock groups, again the neighbors organized complaints and finally brought about the change to the gym they have there now - with lots of very loud exercise classes!!!  Although that has also been gradually brought down to bearable levels.  And the Lienzo banda concerts are strictly seasonal, we don't have that going every week all year around like the clueless bars.

It is NOT part of the Mexican culture to have loud entertainment during the week, as people have to go to work and school in the morning.  After normal party weekends, it is overkill to have to hear horribly loud gringo rock bands playing during the week which is a real affront to the real people of the village. Loud American style rock music (including punk, rap, techno) is not appreciated here by most of the people who prefer the cheerful romantic music of MX.  

Perish the thought of ever starting this up again.  As I said, nothing is soundproofed here as is up north, and all bars act as an echo chamber.  MC was right when he said - open a bar in your own neighborhood so YOU can deal with the ongoing noise and blowback from YOUR neighbors.  And check out that cruzadacontraelruido FB page that I linked above.  The NOISE in MX has reached a critical mass, people are sick of it and want it stopped.  You could play music and dance in your own house if you like.  Remember, there is a Federal Ley de Sonido - sound law.  I've been hoping I would never have to post regarding the noise issue again.

NO! MORE!!  NOISE!!!

scream.jpg

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Please do talk to Tony in a non-confrontational way. He is a dear man and if you approach him in a friendly way, I would expect him to be co-operative. A venue with good, not too loud music that shuts down at a reasonable hour, is an asset.  I will agree that RAP music at 2 AM does not make me happy - that's why I have a sound machine.

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3 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Hey maybe you can get them to turn it up louder so you can enjoy it in your living room and bedroom too.  That way you wouldn't have to sit outside when it is chilly like at 1AM in the morning.

As for the rest, I think you'd be well advised to check with the neighbors before you invite a honky tonk to your block.  You might have misgauged their love of over amplified, amateurish, played too late music.  They might string you up.  :D

If you read the post you will read that YOU suggested another venue opening close to myself and ezpz.. Not me.... 

The only people you hear complaining are gringos..  These bars are owned by Mexican locals who employ Mexican Locals...  What will happen to the families of the workers at these establishments if YOU succeed in getting them shut down... 

Will YOU be brave enough to post that YOU got these bars shut down and the employees thrown out of work...?

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Quote

The only people you hear complaining are gringos..

'fraid not.  Try getting out more among the locals and paying more attention to the Mexican press.  And those aren't the gringos passing the noise laws shutting down the noisy bars in GDL and Zopopan, as has been detailed for you on numerous occasions and many threads.  Pretending that isn't happening doesn't make it disappear no matter how hard one tries.

The fact the local government doesn't protect its citizens from abusive music venues doesn't mean the locals like them.  It means it is more profitable to make money off of the bars and ignore the well being of the people it is supposed to serve.  This is far from the only example of that here in Chapala Municipio.

I just though as a great fan of loud, late music somewhere else you'd want to have one on your street.   Guess not.  :D

 

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This isn't GDL or Zopopan. It is a party town and will remain so. I live catty-corner to a karaoki lounge that also has live music on the weekends. On the other side of me is a crazy loud swimming pool evento. I say Viva Mexico and close the windows.

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