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Crackdown on Golf Carts


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Thanks everyone for the feedback on my post - even those that did not agree with all of it. 

I want to say that I'm not attacking car owners in general, just those who feel that they are the rightful owners of the back roads and parking lots.

I do agree with most of you that NO Golf Cart should be on the highway or the bike path and they should also obey the rules of the road. Only A-holes part in disabled spots - those that don't need to, of course.

Let me further explain why it should NOT be necessary to have insurance, a license plate and a drivers license to use one. 

The reason cars need all this is tied to their deadly nature: they are complex, several ton missiles traveling at high speed that can do a fantastic  amount of damage and kill many people in just a few seconds. The license plates are needed to know who to send to jail when you kill somebodies loved one. A license is also handy to make sure the owners is not totally blind and understands at least a few percent of the many traffic rules.

A Golf Cart? You'd pretty much have to have one dropped on you to get hurt. They are slow, comically easy to operate and have killed ZERO people. Why don't people on bicycles need insurance? Pedestrians? Dogs? They really should have it - to cover the cost of getting run over by a car. But, call me a fool, I resent the need to pay in advance for the pain and suffering somebody else is going to do to me. Maybe the car owner should have "I ran over a Golf Cart insurance"? 

As for the traffic cops that provoke so much fear and loathing here, try to understand. these poor people make zip (like $7000 pesos a month). Sure, many are dickheads that I'd gladly knee in the groin, but take a step back. In the last 5 years, I've paid a total of $1500 pesos in "special" fines - that's nothing. I'll trade that for my yearly $100 USD property tax no problem.

And I've only paid when I was going the wrong way down a one way street - it's hard to tell sometimes. So, I don't get worked up, if I do wrong, I pay. At least the money is going to a local family and not getting stolen higher up. They generally won't stop you unless they see  you breaking some kind of law. If they do stop you for nothing, tell them you want their name and badge number and take a picture of them like the ones on the site - they hate that. They want the money but don't want to get busted taking it. And for F--ks Sake: stay off the damn highway unless you have a death wish. 

Another trick for you Cart lovers - drive after 5PM. Traffic cops go home then :)

Thanks again to all for the feedback and please don't take anything I say personally. 

 

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20 hours ago, barcelonaman said:

20 mph is fine through ajijic but wouldnt fancy the abuse driving from ajijic to chapala at that speed.

 

3 hours ago, SYSY said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback on my post - even those that did not agree with all of it. 

I want to say that I'm not attacking car owners in general, just those who feel that they are the rightful owners of the back roads and parking lots.

I do agree with most of you that NO Golf Cart should be on the highway or the bike path and they should also obey the rules of the road. Only A-holes part in disabled spots - those that don't need to, of course.

Let me further explain why it should NOT be necessary to have insurance, a license plate and a drivers license to use one. 

The reason cars need all this is tied to their deadly nature: they are complex, several ton missiles traveling at high speed that can do a fantastic  amount of damage and kill many people in just a few seconds. The license plates are needed to know who to send to jail when you kill somebodies loved one. A license is also handy to make sure the owners is not totally blind and understands at least a few percent of the many traffic rules.

A Golf Cart? You'd pretty much have to have one dropped on you to get hurt. They are slow, comically easy to operate and have killed ZERO people. Why don't people on bicycles need insurance? Pedestrians? Dogs? They really should have it - to cover the cost of getting run over by a car. But, call me a fool, I resent the need to pay in advance for the pain and suffering somebody else is going to do to me. Maybe the car owner should have "I ran over a Golf Cart insurance"? 

As for the traffic cops that provoke so much fear and loathing here, try to understand. these poor people make zip (like $7000 pesos a month). Sure, many are dickheads that I'd gladly knee in the groin, but take a step back. In the last 5 years, I've paid a total of $1500 pesos in "special" fines - that's nothing. I'll trade that for my yearly $100 USD property tax no problem.

And I've only paid when I was going the wrong way down a one way street - it's hard to tell sometimes. So, I don't get worked up, if I do wrong, I pay. At least the money is going to a local family and not getting stolen higher up. They generally won't stop you unless they see  you breaking some kind of law. If they do stop you for nothing, tell them you want their name and badge number and take a picture of them like the ones on the site - they hate that. They want the money but don't want to get busted taking it. And for F--ks Sake: stay off the damn highway unless you have a death wish. 

Another trick for you Cart lovers - drive after 5PM. Traffic cops go home then :)

Thanks again to all for the feedback and please don't take anything I say personally. 

 

Whether or not your argument is reasonable, it's the government you're addressing, and you must have heard what is said about "fighting city hall".  Good luck on that.;)

 

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4 hours ago, SYSY said:

A Golf Cart? You'd pretty much have to have one dropped on you to get hurt. They are slow, comically easy to operate and have killed ZERO people. Why don't people on bicycles need insurance? Pedestrians? Dogs? They really should have it - to cover the cost of getting run over by a car. But, call me a fool, I resent the need to pay in advance for the pain and suffering somebody else is going to do to me. Maybe the car owner should have "I ran over a Golf Cart insurance"? 

Woman killed after being struck by golf cart in parking lot:

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/29596300/woman-hit-by-golf-cart-dies-of-injuries

And this death by golf cart happened earlier this month:

http://www.myarklamiss.com/news/local-news/woman-dies-after-being-hit-by-a-golf-cart/822930415

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15 minutes ago, Bisbee Gal said:

In the first link,  the lesson is don't let an 8 year old drive a cart with a 97 year old controlling the pedals. 

In the second, it is being investigated for cause of death. Supposedly she was struck by a relative but why she dies is unknown.

In decades,  possibly two people were killed after being struck.  Thousands more died from motorcycle, car and truck accidents.

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4 minutes ago, Joco said:

In the first link,  the lesson is don't let an 8 year old drive a cart with a 97 year old controlling the pedals. 

In the second, it is being investigated for cause of death. Supposedly she was struck by a relative but why she dies is unknown.

In decades,  possibly two people were killed after being struck.  Thousands more died from motorcycle, car and truck accidents.

I found those 2 deaths in one swipe at a google search; I'm sure there are more.  Just pointing out the poster who said NO Deaths hadn't done much research.  

I am not frail or all that elderly, but if hit by a golf cart it could easily result in a broken leg, hip or head injury.  THAT is why the cart owner needs to be insured.  

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4 hours ago, SYSY said:

Thanks everyone for the feedback on my post - even those that did not agree with all of it. 

 

As for the traffic cops that provoke so much fear and loathing here, try to understand. these poor people make zip (like $7000 pesos a month). Sure, many are dickheads that I'd gladly knee in the groin, but take a step back. In the last 5 years, I've paid a total of $1500 pesos in "special" fines - that's nothing. I'll trade that for my yearly $100 USD property tax no problem.

And I've only paid when I was going the wrong way down a one way street - it's hard to tell sometimes. So, I don't get worked up, if I do wrong, I pay. At least the money is going to a local family and not getting stolen higher up.  

Another trick for you Cart lovers - drive after 5PM. Traffic cops go home then :)

 

 

I find several of your comments condecending towards Mexicans and their country. IMO :)

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1 hour ago, AlanMexicali said:

I find several of your comments condecending towards Mexicans and their country. IMO :)

Interesting comment given it is a well known and widely reported fact that the cops in this country are woefully underpaid and prone to bribery, and also in light of the story reported on the front page of the GDL Reporter this week, namely that Mexico ranks #1 in Latin America for corruption.  It isn't easy to miss the constant stream of news stories about the big ticket theft of the "higher ups" in this country these days but clearly it is possible.  :D

 

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Need for insurance:  It shouldn't require much imagination to picture yourself being backed over by a golf cart. You don't think you'd suffer injury? You bet you would.  Who should pay for it?  Insurance, normally.   I haven't heard one good reason as yet why car owners should be required to carry insurance and golf cart owners should be exempt. 

Licenses:  Car drivers are required to be tested, including eye tests, before they are licensed to drive.  Should a person whose sight is seriously impaired be allowed on the road in ANY kind of vehicle?   There are other matters, such as knowledge of the rules and capability to drive properly for which car owners are tested.  Why should golf cart drivers be exempt?

Arguments about golf carts saving air pollution and gas mileage are red herrings.

 

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9 minutes ago, gringal said:

Need for insurance:  It shouldn't require much imagination to picture yourself being backed over by a golf cart. You don't think you'd suffer injury? You bet you would.  Who should pay for it?  Insurance, normally.   I haven't heard one good reason as yet why car owners should be required to carry insurance and golf cart owners should be exempt. 

Licenses:  Car drivers are required to be tested, including eye tests, before they are licensed to drive.  Should a person whose sight is seriously impaired be allowed on the road in ANY kind of vehicle?   There are other matters, such as knowledge of the rules and capability to drive properly for which car owners are tested.  Why should golf cart drivers be exempt?

Arguments about golf carts saving air pollution and gas mileage are red herrings.

 

Car owners tested in Mexico!!

Have you taken the test here?

How many golf cart drivers are not also car drivers with licenses.

Global warming is fake news as well!!

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1 minute ago, ibbocat said:

Car owners tested in Mexico!!

Have you taken the test here?

How many golf cart drivers are not also car drivers with licenses.

Global warming is fake news as well!!

I assume your tongue is firmly planted in your cheek.

But, just for the record:  (1)Yes, they are tested; written, driving and eyes.  (2)Yes, it's taken here.  (3) Many golf cart owners have given up cars and don't need a car driving license.

(4)Of course global warming is fake news.:rolleyes:

 

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3 minutes ago, gringal said:

Ahem....to quote:  "Follow the money".:ph34r:

A very astute comment!  Although........in Mexico everything of that nature is usually done in efectivo so more difficult to follow the trail.......unless you use marked bills to ensnare the recipient, LOL.

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Thanks once again for all the feedback and the insurance issue is a valid point - it is possible to get hurt or even killed with a golf cart - but it is not the possibility that requires insurance - its the probability.

The probability is very low - there are many things that have a low probability of doing damage that do not require insurance to operate. A sail boat for example or even a motorboat. 

But I think a practical test is in order. You stand 20 feet from my golf cart and I'll head toward you at full speed - if you can't get out of the way in time, you are far too slow to be safely walking around here!

Then, let's take a new Suburban and try the same test with double the distance (40 feet)- I'll drive straight at you full power and you need to get away - bonus points if you don't crap yourself.

If you feel like  you need insurance, buy it. I'm self insured - if I do damage, I'll pay for it.

 

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All this commentary is interesting but irrelevant. It is not a handful of foreigners on a web board who are making the rules for golf carts on public roads. The Mexican authorities are making and enforcing laws in their communities. So explain and justify all you want. It will change nothing. 

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8 minutes ago, SYSY said:

Thanks once again for all the feedback and the insurance issue is a valid point - it is possible to get hurt or even killed with a golf cart - but it is not the possibility that requires insurance - its the probability.

The probability is very low - there are many things that have a low probability of doing damage that do not require insurance to operate. A sail boat for example or even a motorboat. 

But I think a practical test is in order. You stand 20 feet from my golf cart and I'll head toward you at full speed - if you can't get out of the way in time, you are far too slow to be safely walking around here!

Then, let's take a new Suburban and try the same test with double the distance (40 feet)- I'll drive straight at you full power and you need to get away - bonus points if you don't crap yourself.

If you feel like  you need insurance, buy it. I'm self insured - if I do damage, I'll pay for it.

 

Makes no difference if any of us likes it or not. If the gummint says they are not legal then you operate one on public roads at your own peril. And if you happen to do something unexpected and make somebody crap themselves you can expect vigilante justice to swiftly take place.

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The State of Jalisco has ZERO laws relating to golf carts - they do not issue license plates for them, nor do they require insurance. 

You cannot get clear title to them since they don't have VIN numbers and also do not come with facturas. Some people do have these, but it's the huge minority. The plates they have are not regulation and will probably get them stopped as often as anything else.

Cops make it up as they go and specifically target users for money since it's a grey area. That's the real truth.

The reason it's important to discuss this is that we do have the power to influence them and they do respond - especially at higher levels - to our concerns. So if enough people go around saying we need a lot of rules and regulations for golf carts, they will make them just for us. And use them to shake us down as well. Sir, where's your turn signal? Do you have a horn on that? Air bags? Seat belts? A wind shield? They will find something, no matter how carefully you try to follow the rules. They want your money - they could care less about your safety or anyone else - or have you not seen how the locals drive around here?

What Mexico should really worry about is getting a bad rap and hurting tourism by making it an unfriendly place to be - this is the real problem and many people go away from Mexico with a very bad taste in their mouth thanks to cops desire to shake them down for money. 

As for all the accidents and fatalities involving golf carts, not so much.

I'm hoping the reason prevails here.

The cops should go after the dangerous CAR drivers - you know, the ones that cause you to crap your pants every time you need to cross the carretera and ACTUALLY kill people on a regular basis? And if they do, I'm happy to "tip" them once and a while.

I also think theirs some real resentment against golf carters - not sure why, but I'd like to hear from those that really don't like them - maybe I'm missing something?

 

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33 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Makes no difference if any of us likes it or not. If the gummint says they are not legal then you operate one on public roads at your own peril. And if you happen to do something unexpected and make somebody crap themselves you can expect vigilante justice to swiftly take place.

I don't think SYSY heard the previous comment about "fighting city hall".  We don't make and enforce the rules.  They do.  We moved into their jurisdiction, presumably on purpose.

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting a bit weary about expats trying to change the way things are in Mexico?

 

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When you get get pulled over in your golf cart do please tell the officer there are no laws against what you are doing. I am sure he will appreciate the lesson from you. SYSY, please re-read your posts. Do you detect perhaps a teensy bit of resentment against car drivers? 

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Absolutely I resent crazy car owners (don't personalize here - if you are a decent and thoughtful driver, this is not directed at you)  - I've almost been killed hundreds of times as a car owner,  bicycle rider, pedestrian and a golf cart driver - by CARS incidentally, not carts. Have you not? So I do have some reasons on my side.

By using a golf cart, I'm doing my part to REDUCE the deaths and injuries - I'm not asking everyone to do the same, just not help to make owning a cart more onerous.

But I'm curious as to the reasons for those that don't like the golf carts. Have they been injured? Run over? Inconvenienced somehow? Really, I'm curious. Because why else would they be harping on the rules and regulations we don't have to follow?

Maybe I could be a better carter myself - please, feedback is welcome.


Computer Guy: Nice pic - looks like Sun City - also in FL and cars and carts share the roads there,  but they do have dedicated cart trails, too - paradise!  I've a friend who used to live their. I agree with you - they need to move as fast a possible to make it carts only everywhere :)

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23 minutes ago, gringal said:

I don't think SYSY heard the previous comment about "fighting city hall".  We don't make and enforce the rules.  They do.  We moved into their jurisdiction, presumably on purpose.

Is it just me, or is anyone else getting a bit weary about expats trying to change the way things are in Mexico?

 

Yeah, for at least some of us that very fact is part of the reason we used to love lakeside but have decided we no longer feel the same way. Puerto Vallarta may be hot, humid, overrun with tourists on some days, but there are very few foreigners trying to change things to their liking, no golf carts (but I have seen a couple of tuk tuks) and the Transitos have never tried to shake me down, not once. They do do enforcement in numbers once in a while but if you have a current registration and have your seatbelt on, they smile and say sorry, have a nice day. They don't even ask to see your license or proof of insurance. Foreign plates, and you are RP? No problem, they have a "program" for those folks too. $1000 the first year and $500 thereafter keeps you out of any "local" trouble. Stay away from the airport and the federales. To each his own.

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46 minutes ago, SYSY said:

You cannot get clear title to them since they don't have VIN numbers and also do not come with facturas. 

You can get a Factura for ANYTHING you purchase.  it's the Law.  Golf carts have Serial Numbers, same as a VIN.  ANY road legal vehicle can be registered and get plates. e.g. Quads.

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59 minutes ago, pappysmarket said:

Yeah, for at least some of us that very fact is part of the reason we used to love lakeside but have decided we no longer feel the same way. Puerto Vallarta may be hot, humid, overrun with tourists on some days, but there are very few foreigners trying to change things to their liking, no golf carts (but I have seen a couple of tuk tuks) and the Transitos have never tried to shake me down, not once. They do do enforcement in numbers once in a while but if you have a current registration and have your seatbelt on, they smile and say sorry, have a nice day. They don't even ask to see your license or proof of insurance. Foreign plates, and you are RP? No problem, they have a "program" for those folks too. $1000 the first year and $500 thereafter keeps you out of any "local" trouble. Stay away from the airport and the federales. To each his own.

I'd be happy to be in Puerta Vallarta for any number of good reasons, among which is the art scene, but just can't handle the heat and humidity.  Gasp.  Pant.  Glad you're happy....enjoy!B)

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You can get a factura if the person who sells it to you has the original - that's the hard part. Most people don't have facturas for their carts and never got one originally since they also bought it used without one.

If you buy a new one from Golf Lozano or SS Autos you can get one, I've heard. 

My cart does not have an SN I know of, but some must have them.

You can also buy a factura and plate for around $6000 pesos with a plate from the State of Mexico. You can do this for cars as well, but transito will pull you over for it to investigate your title. Not sure on the golf carts. These State of Mexico plates are frequently found on cars with a "dubious precedence" hence the cops interest in them.

It's good idea to get a plate and a factura if you are not willing to "tip" the cops if they pull you over since they might tow you in that case. Once they tow, you'll need to pay a large fine, so try to avoid that. "Tipping" is cheaper and a lot less hassle.

There are only 7 teams of transitos in the area now - they have their plate full so they don't have time to crack down on carts as they might like to, so if you stay on the back roads and have some tip money handy, it's far cheaper in the long run.

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