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HarryB

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I was visited again this morning by local Mexicans and asked if the local expats were going to support their effort by not paying any government fees until the end of february.

 

I could only answer some yes and some no.

 

Later I was told the numbers paying taxes yesterday was very light. I also visited a bank today and the mexicans in line were talking about it and asking others to support the effort and not pay taxes until the end of february

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Moderator, after the last goaround on this topic, which was quite painful and almost totally not on the topic because of possible trolling, I wonder if the powers that be on this webboard could consider a "troll" button on each posting which, after a certain number of people have pressed it (democracy in action), would blank out that person`s posts on the topic? I know, wishful thinking, but wouldn`t it be nice if we could be free of such terrible disturbance trolls can cause........

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I understand that software changes are more difficult. But lately it seems that topics of real interest to many folks are getting closed because the same few folks are arguing off topic.  Wouldn't it be better to censure the inappropriate posters rather than stop the discussion?  

Sorry, I know this is off topic as well, but thought it important to say somewhere.

 

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Change? Fugetaboutit. The Moderator asked very politely on the second post to stay on topic - every post after that is completely off topic (including this one of course)!

These social network sites are mostly dysfunctional - and this often attracts dysfunctional people.

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Getting back to the thread as intended................ I was informed that as of this morning one of our major Fraccs, is joining the effort. Mexicans are riding bikes instead of driving and they are encouraging each other to delay paying gov fees until the end of february !

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http://www.mexicali.gob.mx/xxi/predial2016/lugaresCobro.html

http://sanluis.gob.mx/

Remember other cities offer discounts greater than Chapala´s 10% and they are 1 month each  20 % or 15% before Jan. 31st, 15% or 10% before Febuary 28th and 10% or 5% before March 31st. If you are reading this and do live in Chapala you might wait until Febuary 28th and lose a 10% or 5% discount in your place of residence around Mexico

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I don't understand what the cities Predial has to do with Federal Gasoline Prices. Why are the protestors not blocking Federal Office buildings, Federal Police Stations, the Federal Congress, marching on the Mexican White House, etc.? The local Pemex, local city government, the highways where people drive, are not responsible for the Gas Increase. Does not make much sense to me, but this is Mexico, so....

 

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demonstrations in many cities. road blocks all over mexico. some gas stations closing because of threats,800 buses in guadalajara not in service ! etc etc. all in mexican papers and news tv, 

http://www.informador.com.mx/jalisco/2017/700271/6/semov-anuncia-medidas-emergentes-contra-paro-camionero.htm

http://www.milenio.com/estados/bloqueos_gasolinazo-alza_combustibles-rafael_ortiz_pacheco-amotac-milenio_0_878312417.html

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Harry--Just a suggestion: Couldn't you just let these many Mexicans coming to your door that you'll pass on to the foreigners you know what their plan is? Good for them. 

But you don't really expect to get back to them with a head count, do you?

Lexy

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Was doing a little reading and apparently the 20% price hike on gasoline which has everyone upset results from the deregulation of gasoline which was slated to take effect the first of this year and is the first step in Peña Nieto's plan to privatize Mexico's oil.

I know some of you are all for this because of all the grotesque corruption surrounding Pemex but doesn't privatizing the oil only introduce one more greedy open hand into the mix that will ultimately lessen the proceeds available that pay and support Mexico's safety net like their national health care systems, etc.?  My understanding is that the oil subsidizes these programs among many others and if you now have private corporations with stock holders and CEO's grabbing their chunk, won't there be less for social programs?  Isn't this shoveling more to the 1% and won't the remaining 99% in Mexico just get more of the shaft?  Obviously the price hike is an instant hardship onto the poor and lower middle classes of Mexico.  Not what Lazaro Cardenas intended at all.

I really don't understand the intricacies of all this and have read posts by Maincoons in support of privatization that make sense as well.  Would be nice if someone who understands this better than I could chime in.

Among the articles I read it stated that this entire fiasco is a real boost to Manuel Lopez Obrador's bid for the 2018 presidential race and that his popularity is soaring.  Poor guy, if he does run, I'm sure they will steal it away from him again regardless.  And if that happens for a third time, just might trigger another revolution in this country?  

Lets hope and pray for the best in the coming years and for justice for the citizens and residents of this nation!

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I'll tell you this, the longer I live here the more I am struck by how similar and interchangeable government and the narco cartels are.  Government here seems to exist for one purpose only, private gain in public "service."  It seems that literally weekly and more than once weekly there are reports of how this politician or that politician stole hundreds of millions of pesos.

Nobody ever goes to jail for grand theft government here, that's for sure.

In point of fact, this country collects a lot of money in taxes.  However from the very local level right up to the top, most of it seems to disappear in crooked contracts of which roads that fall apart in 6 months are a good example, or just outright theft to the point of emptying government bank accounts and stealing the office computers and furniture.  I wonder if more than a little of the public anger we are seeing is more about this than the gas price increase.

Pemex is a corrupt disaster.  It has literally thousands of people collecting pay checks who don't show up for work.  Its management is routinely caught stealing via pay for play and crooked contracts.  The employees help the cartels steal from it.  It is probably not far off to suspect that half the price of a liter of gas here is the cost of this theft and wholesale corruption.

Hard for me to see how getting rid of Pemex would make things worse but if that can be done, it seems that they can do it here.  Everyone likes to gripe about the oil companies in the U.S. but the fact is they reliably deliver a product at a great price with a profit level that is a lot less than the gas taxes imposed by government.

If that is possible, it seems the two party monopoly in Mexico has even worse consequences than the one in the U.S.  Maybe it is time for an Obrador.  Hard for me to see how that could be any worse than the total corruption of PRI and PAN.

The real question in my mind is how we got to the point where government both here, south of here, Europe and NOB is so broken and incompetent.  Elections have become nothing more than an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic in all these places IMHO.  I'm glad I'm old because things sure aren't getting any better.  We seem to be leaving a lousy mess for the kids and grand kids.

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22 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

I'll tell you this, the longer I live here the more I am struck by how similar and interchangeable government and the narco cartels are.  Government here seems to exist for one purpose only, private gain in public "service."  It seems that literally weekly and more than once weekly there are reports of how this politician or that politician stole hundreds of millions of pesos.

Nobody ever goes to jail for grand theft government here, that's for sure.

In point of fact, this country collects a lot of money in taxes.  However from the very local level right up to the top, most of it seems to disappear in crooked contracts of which roads that fall apart in 6 months are a good example, or just outright theft to the point of emptying government bank accounts and stealing the office computers and furniture.  I wonder if more than a little of the public anger we are seeing is more about this than the gas price increase.

Pemex is a corrupt disaster.  It has literally thousands of people collecting pay checks who don't show up for work.  Its management is routinely caught stealing via pay for play and crooked contracts.  The employees help the cartels steal from it.  It is probably not far off to suspect that half the price of a liter of gas here is the cost of this theft and wholesale corruption.

Hard for me to see how getting rid of Pemex would make things worse but if that can be done, it seems that they can do it here.  Everyone likes to gripe about the oil companies in the U.S. but the fact is they reliably deliver a product at a great price with a profit level that is a lot less than the gas taxes imposed by government.

If that is possible, it seems the two party monopoly in Mexico has even worse consequences than the one in the U.S.  Maybe it is time for an Obrador.  Hard for me to see how that could be any worse than the total corruption of PRI and PAN.

The real question in my mind is how we got to the point where government both here, south of here, Europe and NOB is so broken and incompetent.  Elections have become nothing more than an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic in all these places IMHO.  I'm glad I'm old because things sure aren't getting any better.  We seem to be leaving a lousy mess for the kids and grand kids.

So eloquently stated as usual.  Thank you Maincoons!

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2 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

I'll tell you this, the longer I live here the more I am struck by how similar and interchangeable government and the narco cartels are.  Government here seems to exist for one purpose only, private gain in public "service."  It seems that literally weekly and more than once weekly there are reports of how this politician or that politician stole hundreds of millions of pesos.

Nobody ever goes to jail for grand theft government here, that's for sure.

In point of fact, this country collects a lot of money in taxes.  However from the very local level right up to the top, most of it seems to disappear in crooked contracts of which roads that fall apart in 6 months are a good example, or just outright theft to the point of emptying government bank accounts and stealing the office computers and furniture.  I wonder if more than a little of the public anger we are seeing is more about this than the gas price increase.

Pemex is a corrupt disaster.  It has literally thousands of people collecting pay checks who don't show up for work.  Its management is routinely caught stealing via pay for play and crooked contracts.  The employees help the cartels steal from it.  It is probably not far off to suspect that half the price of a liter of gas here is the cost of this theft and wholesale corruption.

Hard for me to see how getting rid of Pemex would make things worse but if that can be done, it seems that they can do it here.  Everyone likes to gripe about the oil companies in the U.S. but the fact is they reliably deliver a product at a great price with a profit level that is a lot less than the gas taxes imposed by government.

If that is possible, it seems the two party monopoly in Mexico has even worse consequences than the one in the U.S.  Maybe it is time for an Obrador.  Hard for me to see how that could be any worse than the total corruption of PRI and PAN.

The real question in my mind is how we got to the point where government both here, south of here, Europe and NOB is so broken and incompetent.  Elections have become nothing more than an exercise in rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic in all these places IMHO.  I'm glad I'm old because things sure aren't getting any better.  We seem to be leaving a lousy mess for the kids and grand kids.

Too many "hasty judgements" to be considered even partially factual. IMO

It is your opinión with nothing but your own speculations which could be true or could not be true.

Your way of putting it leaves out any knowable evidence to support it except what newspaper and TV news reports you have read which  usually is only a tiny portion of what eventually happened in any given case, but you claim it is finite and universal in all of the Mexican government.

Most of the money collected in taxes is pilfered is a far stretch of the imagination considering what I see going on here.

 Some corrupt government employess have had all their property siezed and not returned [news reports] and some have even gone to prison.

Just my take on the over the top generalizations in your post.

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http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/politician-linked-with-money-laundering-ring/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/ex-governor-of-qr-to-be-freed-from-us-jail/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/cartels-are-winners-with-higher-gas-prices/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/pemex-pipeline-thefts-trigger-gas-shortages/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/new-governors-cant-meet-their-payroll/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/athletics-boss-faces-embezzlement-charge/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/corruption-charges-against-qr-officials/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/duarte-left-mexico-in-november-lawyer/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/cancun-auditorium-closed-for-deficiencies/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/baja-municipalities-in-financial-crisis-mayors/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/how-can-moreira-run-he-stole-36bn-pesos/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/493-staff-accused-of-embezzling-pensions/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/another-ex-governor-accused-of-corruption/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/health-workers-strike-over-unpaid-salaries/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/health-workers-strike-over-unpaid-salaries/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/unfinished-projects-charges-of-corruption/

Quote

The survey also found that 12% of those polled had been victims of corruption last year. The Federal District and San Luis Potosí led the way, each being home to 18% of those victims, followed by the State of Mexico with 16%, and Chihuahua and Quintana Roo with 14%.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/worst-problem-49-corruption/

That's just from the last month and from just one publication.  I can give you another equally long list from El Informador.

And this:

https://panampost.com/adriana-peralta/2014/06/20/mexicos-police-outdo-even-politicians-for-corruption/

Your state cops, Alan, are well known around here for shaking down motorists on that south bypass by the industrial park.  Put up a 25mph speed limit on a wide open 4 lane road and then sit out there and wait for the gringos.

Pemex:

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-pemex-contracts-specialreport-idUSKBN0KW1LZ20150123

http://www.coha.org/combatting-corruption-for-the-sake-of-the-economy-the-afflictions-of-oil-rich-latin-america/

Older, but I seriously doubt there's been much change:

http://cis.org/MexicanOfficials-USPolicy

I rest my case. 

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He didn't demand proof nor did he offer any. My first post was an op-ed, now I've backed it up and can pile on plenty more where that came from.  I invite Alan to back up his op ed in similar manner.

My point is that I think the growing unrest is more than just about gasoline prices.  I wonder just how much this particular protest is catalyzed by the general disgust for the government here that I hear from Mexicans very frequently and it just feels like that frequency is increasing.

At least when it comes to roads I'd have to agree with Alan that his state seems to do a much better job than Jalisco.  Actually it feels like I can hop on my moto and ride in most directions from here and the roads get better when I leave this state.

I will tell you that I've ridden my moto to a lot of municipios that don't appear to have a fraction of the tax base we have here yet somehow they manage to deliver what appear to be superior services.  Perhaps I am not alone in this perception which is why this particular protest has materialized.

I agree with it and I will support it.

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"It is your opinión with nothing but your own speculations which could be true or could not be true. Your way of putting it leaves out any knowable evidence to support it except what newspaper and TV news reports you have read which  usually is only a tiny portion of what eventually happened in any given case, but you claim it is finite and universal in all of the Mexican government."

If that is not an outright denial of your statement and a demand for "any knowable evidence to support it ", I don't know what is.

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