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Noise ordinance?


Charli2011

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A group of mexicans have prepared a noise petition and will be making it available in the various villages for signatures shortly. It is prepared by a mexican lawyer. The petition asks the municipality to pass an ordinance observing the federal guidelines. Once I receive the petition I will prepare an online copy in english for your signatures.

Sorry maincoons, the 5:30 am cohetes are to call the people to the processions and mass before they go to work. They will never stop - the power of them can be limited and were most of October and hopefully during San Andres.

I have been preaching to the Mexican politicos that millions of pesos get on planes, cars and buses during the festivals. If you are leaving for San Andres please take every opportunity to share the fact with any mexican businessmen you can that you are leaving and taking your money with you - MONEY that will not be spent here in your absence.

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6 hours ago, ezpz said:

One tenant there told me how Mexican schools don't teach anything about sound waves, how they travel, etc. - the basis for the sound issue ignorance here, sorry to say.  And the equipment is now easily available to the public since the digital music age.  Sound systems used to only be available in professional music stores where only experienced musicians bought them.  Untrained people have no idea what all those dials and fader switches even do, let alone how to use them.  It's sort of like kids driving on a freeway in a city bus.  So no surprise there are constant problems.

They just don't have faith in the process of complaining, knowing full well that some businesses will simply pay off the inspectors to "extend" their hours, etc.

All the local musicians I've talked to complain they don't get paid enough.  Well, if they had the professionalism to practice and rehearse real actual hit songs and put on a dynamite show with a dynamic front singer to engage the audience, they would attract more customers and would have leverage to ask for more money.  But even the musicians here don't know that.  They often just do sloppy "jamming"  which is musician's code for "no one knows what they are doing but we'll just wing it because everyone is drunk anyway and won't care."  Well, except the neighbors...

That's an awful lot of factoidism that just demands response. First, training people about sound waves has nothing at all to do with anyone's perception of what they like or don't like. Second, I ran a recording studio for a lot of years, and the stuff that the average joe bought had nothing to do with a myriad of dials and faders.

Third, I might even agree with your comment that "they don't have faith in the process of complaining", as that is typical about many things in Mexico, but the concept that every bar owner or business pays off inspectors is based on loose talk, for the most part.

Finally, your blanket condemnation of musicians is unworthy of consideration, and puerile at best.

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17 minutes ago, HarryB said:

A group of mexicans have prepared a noise petition and will be making it available in the various villages for signatures shortly. It is prepared by a mexican lawyer. The petition asks the municipality to pass an ordinance observing the federal guidelines. Once I receive the petition I will prepare an online copy in english for your signatures.

Sorry maincoons, the 5:30 am cohetes are to call the people to the processions and mass before they go to work. They will never stop - the power of them can be limited and were most of October and hopefully during San Andres.

I have been preaching to the Mexican politicos that millions of pesos get on planes, cars and buses during the festivals. If you are leaving for San Andres please take every opportunity to share the fact with any mexican businessmen you can that you are leaving and taking your money with you - MONEY that will not be spent here in your absence.

 

Harry, even 5:30AM would be better.  It was 5AM every day.  Very unhealthy sleep disruption.

I think they used the biggest cojetes I've ever heard at that hour.  It even disturbed our Mexican cat who has ignored it previously.

Thanks for your efforts.

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1 hour ago, ComputerGuy said:

That's an awful lot of factoidism that just demands response. First, training people about sound waves has nothing at all to do with anyone's perception of what they like or don't like. Second, I ran a recording studio for a lot of years, and the stuff that the average joe bought had nothing to do with a myriad of dials and faders.

Third, I might even agree with your comment that "they don't have faith in the process of complaining", as that is typical about many things in Mexico, but the concept that every bar owner of business pays off inspectors is based on loose talk, for the most part.

Finally, your blanket condemnation of musicians is unworthy of consideration, and puerile at best.

I almost never agree with ComputerGuy but this response to eezedpeezed is bang on! Cudos!

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5 hours ago, ezpz said:

Funny, but the cohetes have never bothered me and I've lived in the village for almost 10 years.  When I first heard them I thought it was fabulous fun that people were celebrating so early in the morning when I could happily stay in bed.  What a way to start the day!  Of course you wouldn't want that every day, but you don't have it every day, either.  The Mexicans themselves can deal with this.  In my experience, the people of the village enjoy the cohetes, but there are Mexicans here from other areas like big cities where they are not used to it so don't like it.

Before the Spanish brought gunpowder (and guns) to the "new" world, there used to be ritual drumming in the middle of the night to ward off evil spirits or whatever, but it goes way back.  Plus we have the ritual summertime thunderstorms which boom quite a bit in the middle of the night.  But, who you gonna complain to?  God(dess)?

The noise at Plaza B with the new gym is a great problem for those that work or own shops in there.  They are tearing their hair out over this.  I asked a few why they don't move but they say the rent is low.  I also spoke with the owner way back when they got started with the loud rock groups and horrible extremely loud karaoke out on their upstairs terrace. As is typical he knows nothing about sound or sound equipment.  He staunchly believes that loud noise attracts business like free advertising, but he doesn't see the flip side of that coin.  It also repels a lot of business and it is hurting the current shop owners as well as the neighbors. 

One tenant there told me how Mexican schools don't teach anything about sound waves, how they travel, etc. - the basis for the sound issue ignorance here, sorry to say.  And the equipment is now easily available to the public since the digital music age.  Sound systems used to only be available in professional music stores where only experienced musicians bought them.  Untrained people have no idea what all those dials and fader switches even do, let alone how to use them.  It's sort of like kids driving on a freeway in a city bus.  So no surprise there are constant problems.

 (I noticed that the new Happy Chicken (Pollo Feliz) place has replaced their large sidewalk sound system with a much smaller one.  And they usually play cool salsa music, which we do not hear enough of here in MX, oddly enough.)

It is a total myth that Mexicans "like" all this loud noise.  They just don't have faith in the process of complaining, knowing full well that some businesses will simply pay off the inspectors to "extend" their hours, etc.  There must be some music equipment rental business that is making a killing with these way oversized sound systems everyone uses here.  The business math just doesn't compute.  By the time you pay the equipment rental and the musicians earn very little and then the bar pays off someone to go late, how does anyone make any money when there are only a handful of customers???

All the local musicians I've talked to complain they don't get paid enough.  Well, if they had the professionalism to practice and rehearse real actual hit songs and put on a dynamite show with a dynamic front singer to engage the audience, they would attract more customers and would have leverage to ask for more money.  But even the musicians here don't know that.  They often just do sloppy "jamming"  which is musician's code for "no one knows what they are doing but we'll just wing it because everyone is drunk anyway and won't care."  Well, except the neighbors...

You have to wonder how people come up with these fantasies.

i am speaking for the view of someone who has been a patron of the restaurants, bars and dance venues of this town for ten years now. Also on very friendly terms with a most of the band members in town.

By Mexican standards they are paid quite well. If you add in a few free drinks and sometimes a free meal and tips it's quite a lucrative gig.

As an example at a well known bar and dance venue in San Antonio last Friday night the appreciative crowd threw in 2,500 peso's in the tip jar, not bad for a three piece band...

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Guest bennie2

in guad there are only 4 days per year aloowed to use those rockets. mexicans here hate them all night long. they are also used for recreation which makes it more often. many times per day on saturdays & sundays in my friends area. the loud music is not about sound systems. they like it loud. they know how to make it lower. that area w/the gym is gross. look @ what they attact w/that loud music. how many years has this noice reporting gone on? why is this different? instead of an online petition also do a paper one. there are mexicans who dont have computers who are elderly.

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If you look back over last few years you will see its the same five posters who post about noise.. 

I'm willing the bet these five never to go to see the bands play. If they did they would how good the talent is around here.. 

As an example the guy that plays at that well known bar and dance venue in San Antonio on Mondays and Friday's  just entered a talent contest and finished fifth out of 500 bands throughout Mexico. That hardly seems like someone who does "sloppy jamming" to me.

This is a case of the five posters thinking they are right and want to impose their will on everyone else.

lf any of them think their in the majority just go to to bars on Monday or Tuesday or Friday night, they will find they are full, some bars you can't get a table unless you book weeks in advance...

 

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5 hours ago, HarryB said:

I have been preaching to the Mexican politicos that millions of pesos get on planes, cars and buses during the festivals. If you are leaving for San Andres please take every opportunity to share the fact with any mexican businessmen you can that you are leaving and taking your money with you - MONEY that will not be spent here in your absence.

 

Totally disagree. Millions? We give ourselves waaaay too much credit for the economy in this town. This place would be just fine without us, perhaps even better. With all the Mexicans arriving to visit family from NOB, their pockets full of dollars, the local politicos don't care about a few cheap gringos leaving town for a week in November.

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6 hours ago, HarryB said:

.

I have been preaching to the Mexican politicos that millions of pesos get on planes, cars and buses during the festivals. If you are leaving for San Andres please take every opportunity to share the fact with any mexican businessmen you can that you are leaving and taking your money with you - MONEY that will not be spent here in your absence.

This gets so tiresome listening to all this self righteous spouting.. All the petitions that are going to be taken to the Chapala admin.. Have any actuality materialized...?  

What has changed...the noise is as it always was.. He wants to restrict the number of rockets they fire off on holidays.. Using the excuse "The Mexicans-want it"... If that were true why don't the Mexicans go to the administration themselves.. I'm sure it would carry more weight than one always complaining gringo...

.. Wasn't there some kind of petition listing the streets with bad potholes.. The potholes are worse than they have ever been in my 10 years here.. 

As for San Andres.. The traffic is a nightmare here.. The restaurants are full, you can't get a spot to picnic on the malecon...  The businessmen of this town couldn't care less if a few cheap gringos leave for ten days.

 

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Guest bennie2

mexicans have ben to city hall many years ago. no change. they gave up my hair lady told me. telz4, we dont give a dxxx about bands. we are old, most of us dont smoke. i never cared about bands or went to bars @ any age. i dont care about talent we dont want to hear them loud. stop hustling.

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If you think there isn't an economic impact count the full busses leaving for PV during San Andres. The planes out of here are also full. Please reread my post. The noise petition will be prepared and presented by MEXICANS. The richest MEXICAN communities have already done this.

 

I have worked for years to improve the quality of life in my village. It is easy to take potshots on a board get out and do something to help!

 

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Guest bennie2

good work harry. rich is the key here. telz4, dont be disrespectful. quality of life is an issue for many people. if you like it louder then most you can use headphones later & turn it up. we hope the clubs will turn it down.

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On 11/9/2016 at 8:16 AM, Mainecoons said:

What went on here during the entire month of October, setting off obviously very large fireworks beginning at 5 AM was over the top IMO.  I have to wonder how these traditions were observed prior to the availability of small sticks of dynamite set off at really unreasonably early hours.

Remember, it wasn't the gringos who developed the new noise laws which, like most everything else in the Chapala municipio are ignored.  It was the Mexicans.  I think their "love" of loud noises during sleeping hours is more a fiction than a reality.

Mainecoons aka Mod 2 - for someone who acts like they know everything about Lake Chapala and who expresses those opinions like they are a group conscience not just your own, you seem to NOT know what goes on here every October in spite of the fact that it has been explained here in your web chatroom over and over again. 

I will womanspain it to you one more time -- The Virgin of the Rosary is celebrated every morning in Ajijic for the entire month of October. Each barrio has a week they are responsible for a procession from their alter to the church. Sometimes the Virgin of Zapopan comes to Ajijic and the girls have a slumber party in the Parroquia together. Then at the end of the month she has a parade from the Parroquia to the chapel at Six Corners that's named in her honor and she spends the night there and then comes back to the little chapel on the plaza to rest until next year when she gets to have another celebration and party. 

Gunpowder was invented in the 9th century -- so I'm guessing that for as long as Ajijic has been here and the Virgin of the Rosary has been around people here have figured out ways to shoot off those "small sticks of dynamite" for their celebration and waiting for you to arrive just to piss you off. 

For anyone getting to read this before Mainecoons deletes it and blocks me because that's what oligarchs do -- you're welcome!!!  

Mike drop!!!! 

 

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20 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

That's an awful lot of factoidism that just demands response. First, training people about sound waves has nothing at all to do with anyone's perception of what they like or don't like. Second, I ran a recording studio for a lot of years, and the stuff that the average joe bought had nothing to do with a myriad of dials and faders.

Third, I might even agree with your comment that "they don't have faith in the process of complaining", as that is typical about many things in Mexico, but the concept that every bar owner or business pays off inspectors is based on loose talk, for the most part.

Finally, your blanket condemnation of musicians is unworthy of consideration, and puerile at best.

 

CG, I'm not talking about "training" people in schools, although a class in sound technology would a great thing to have here.  I'm talking about providing the basic facts of sound waves, one of which is that they travel and often echo off local surfaces, especially here in Mexico where everything is constructed out of bricks and concrete and is open air.  That would make it easier for the noise makers to understand why people are complaining because yes, that noise goes all the way into my house from their venue and causes untold aggravation.  Sound technology was invented and developed in the USA with the cold climate and mostly wood, highly insulated buildings.  In roughly 80 years of this technology, it has NEVER been OK to bother neighbors with your noise!  All entertainment venues are highly soundproofed as well as located in areas where huge concerts won't cause too much sonic bother because the venues are major theatres or sports stadiums located and designed to handle very loud noise and crowds.  Needless to say, we have none of this in the pueblito of Ajijic.  Here, these local rock bands play at volumes sufficient for thousands of people in a corner bar with their small crowds.  I know because I've heard it all from my house!!

My comments here about the noise and music are based on my lifetime involvement in performing music (and dance) as a teenage symphony violinist and also a steadily employed house band disco/funk singer in the Oakland - SF area during the 70s.  I've also recorded and produced a number of my own song demos.  The SF Bay Area is an extremely competitive and professional music scene and sub par people simply do not play in public there, so I have been very shocked at what I have heard here BLASTED INTO MY HOUSE AGAINST MY WILL..    I've lived between El Barco and Plaza B for 7 years so I have heard it all.  In fact, it is due to neighborhood actions that those places are no longer featuring such loud bad "entertainment."  El Barco put up some sound baffling and improved the quality of their acts so I'm happy to report that they are rarely a problem anymore.  Plaza B just changed from extremely LOUD awful groups playing outdoors on a 3rd floor terrace to having very loud exercise classes.   

I believe my background in professional performance and recording gives me room to critique these issues/

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18 hours ago, TelsZ4 said:

You have to wonder how people come up with these fantasies.

i am speaking for the view of someone who has been a patron of the restaurants, bars and dance venues of this town for ten years now. Also on very friendly terms with a most of the band members in town.

By Mexican standards they are paid quite well. If you add in a few free drinks and sometimes a free meal and tips it's quite a lucrative gig.

As an example at a well known bar and dance venue in San Antonio last Friday night the appreciative crowd threw in 2,500 peso's in the tip jar, not bad for a three piece band...

Tel, I'm simply stating my factual experiences.  See my response to Computer Guy for more.  My neighbors and I suffered through 4 solid years of horrible blasting noise from El Barco before they made their changes a couple years ago.  Wanna know how many times I was forced against my will to hear that infernal "jam" band?   200!!  They played every Mon. night for 4 years - that adds up to around 200.  They always played the same very elementary "songs" that were the only things those inexperienced musicians could play, without rehearsing, of course, because that would be too much work.  Exruciatingly boring and aggravating.

My Mexican neighbors and I united against all this and they were glad to get my perspective.  El B. always had a mix of gringo groups and the worst Mexican groups on the weekends, and the local rock star wannabe was a particular torture.  I once woke up having bad dreams after falling asleep during one of his breaks - and then he started up again.   

I once sat in with the "great" jazz musicians at El Barco and the feedback I got was that I could get work in Guad, and the reason these fine jazz musicians don't play here more often is that no one wants to pay them sufficiently to make the drive worthwhile.  The drive also complicates the issue of rehearsing.  Plus local and Guad musicians actually expect to be paid for rehearsing????  What budget is that supposed to come out of?  

I understand Adelitas has better music now and more power to them if they can pull that off without blasting the neighbors to kingdom come.  I don't go out bar hopping because I am so done with bar music here, which has been blasted into my house.  It's all too much loud rock guitar for me.   Illnesses and injuries have complicated my maintaining my own performance skills.  Plus I realized that there simply is no one here who can play the songs I want to sing, so if I want to hear great music I just stay home.  If I want to sing in public I've come to appreciate Karaoke where I can sing the great songs of Aretha, Earth Wind and Fire, Natalie Cole, Motown, real R&B, etc.  The karaoke tracks sound a lot better than the groups around here, for the styles that I sing.

Sound issues have to be raised by the people who are actually affected and I happen to live in a vortex of local noise - in an other wise perfect house for me.  

And muchisimas gracias to Harry B. for helping with this noise issue.  Mexico will slowly become unlivable if something isn't done about the ever increasing decibel problem here generated by commercial noise.  Soundproofing would enable people to have their loud music without disrupting the peace of the neighbors.  

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21 hours ago, ComputerGuy said:

 First, training people about sound waves has nothing at all to do with anyone's perception of what they like or don't like. Second, I ran a recording studio for a lot of years, and the stuff that the average joe bought had nothing to do with a myriad of dials and faders.

CG, the people who actually operate the sound equipment are supposed to understand the dials and faders and how and why to use them!  That machinery is not a toy!!

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Guest bennie2

ezpz, most of the mexicans (who blast music) want it to be heard from miles away. (whether it on a bus, car, club, shreiking announcement from a pickup truck, arobic class). they will turn up volume treble & bass, even in a small room. so much that my mex friend & i had ringing in their ears & migraines w/in a few minutes. (friend also stopped going to these exercise classes in chapala). the majority like this, as classes are crowded. they scream over the blasting. they wont understand why people complain. you beat a dead horse year after year. we know your skills, but the mexican venues do not care. we dont need a critque on music tastes, its superfilous. maybe your mexican neighbors can work on getting a sound proofing law passed. this is a trend in the US as well, in lower end stores, or stores for teens.

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5 minutes ago, bennie2 said:

ezpz, most of the mexicans (who blast music) want it to be heard from miles away. (whether it on a bus, car, club, arobic class). they will turn up volume treble & bass, even in a small room. so much that people had ringing in their ears & migraines. (my mex friend stopped going to these exercise classes, im referring to other places not torittos). the majority like this, as classes are crowded. they dont & wont understand why people complain. you beat a dead horse year after year. we know your skills, but the mexican venues do not care. they like it.

The people in the classes think they like it but the neighbors don't!!!  We have to hear ALL of it not just the one class someone attends that day.  The only real solution is soundproofing so people could have their loud music and the neighbors could have peace in their/our homes.  I DON"T give my permission for all this noise inside the privacy of my own home.   I'm not beating a dead horse!  I have experience with these issues and the neighbors have come together and brought about some amount of improvement.  The newbies reading these threads sometimes need some background on these various noise situations.

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EZ you need to move further away from Plaza B.  It isn't going to get any quieter.  Trust me on this.  It could have been a lot worse, suppose they turned the third floor into a disco?  The classes are held during the day.  We did manage to get the volume turned down on the exercise floor.  Best time to go is after 10AM and then in the afternoon after about 1PM.  Some times we have the floor to ourselves (me and workout buddy).

BTW, that is a superb gym compared to what was available here previously.  It has all the really good machines plus an excellent free weight setup.  We are really happy to have it.  I'm amazed at the obvious size of the investment there in both the building and equipment.

 

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