Language problems and anger

[luvsdawgs]

On 8/25/2016 at 6:56 PM, rvanparys said:

Evidently the person that parked her broom at the curb and gave a ration to the poor Telmex person has not lived out of the US... We all have an option, accept what  is offered or go home... Mexico is a great place to live if you understand that all of the services we take for granted in the US may or may not  be available....

Why do you assume she was from the US? I find that pretty insulting. There are English speaking people here from all over the world.

[bdlngton]

9 hours ago, catbird said:

You know, each side has logical and valid points to their position but here's what sticks in my mind. When you cross the border into Mexico it's up to you to make it work. Sometimes you get help and sometimes you don't. But when you cross the border into the U.S. they have Spanish speaking agents and in fact most of them ARE Spanish. The signs are in English AND Spanish. That tics me off. I like Mexico and like living here but I don't like it when people  act as though it's perfect and all wonderful. Be realistic, there are things that could be improved. There's a large population of English speaking people living here and it wouldn't be too difficult to accommodate them. We're probably their best customers. On the other hand I'm not rude or unfriendly if there's not.

Just a point of clarification, please.  Do you mean that the U.S. agents are Spanish, I.e. from Spain?  That seems unlikely, at least to me.  My impression is that most of the Spanish-speaking U.S. immigration and customs agents are Americans of Hispanic heritage, probably mostly of Mexican heritage, or what are often referred to as Mexican-American or Chicano.  The language spoken in Mxico and Spain as well as in most countries in Latin America is Spanish, often referred to as castellano by many who speak it.  Soanish is also used to refer to the people of Spain, or in Spanish known as espanol/espanola (sorry, I don't know how to do the tilde on this device.)  This is akin to saying one s American or Canadian, not English,  but speaks English.

[Kiko]

This is how my friends in Mexico think.  In the US, more view themselves as Latino or Hispanic because that is a gringo term that does not sound so "Mexican".  

I´ve seen T-shirts in the states that have printed on the front: NO SOY Latino, Hispanic, Cholo, Mexican-American, Pocho..Then on the back the shirt will read:  SOY 110% MEXICANO!

[Kiko]

Many in this area do speak some English but not well enough to be confident, so they are hesitant to converse with you in the event there is a misunderstanding.  So if they do speak to you in broken English remember this:

[jrm30655]

I learned the 2nd day in MX how to make this work.

I missed a turn and ended up on the free road instead of the cuota.  I was about 20 miles in and didn't want to backtrack.  Stopped for gas, no English.  Tried the OXXO, no English.  I could see the quota a couple of miles to the south but had no idea how to get there.

The lady at OXXO whipped out a phone, called someone and handed me the phone.  Guy with perfect English told me how to do it.

I keep a dozen phone numbers of bilingual people in my phone.  If I run into something that I can't handle, I call someone to translate.

I also keep the phone number of a certain local cop.  If I have to talk to a cop, I call him to translate.  Generally, he can sort it out with no problem.  

 

[virgogirl]

I saw I was slammed back there about being an "elderly english teacher" wanting to bother Telmex. Just like to say I've formerly worked at Sanmina, Honda, Kadant, all these companies wanting the lessons in groups and private formats. There is nothing wrong with offering professional services. If they don't want them, I move on. 

Funny how someone would want to jump on you for wanting to work. I'm not a do-gooder volunteer, and I'm not that old. It's seeing a need , and offering your services. 

[jrod]

The Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo (1848), ratified by the U.S. Congress and signed by the President , is part of the "supreme law of the land" and takes precedence over any state statute. The Treaty guarantees to Spanish-speaking and Native American-speaking persons "the free enjoyment of their liberty and property." Since virtually none of the former Mexican subjects could speak English in 1848, their "liberty" includes the right to speak, to teach, and to learn Spanish and Native-American languages. After all, what can "liberty" mean if it does not mean the right to speak and use one's own language? Following the treaty both California and New Mexico made Spanish a co-equal legal language with English, thus confirming the treaty. 

Further, throughout history, when one country or nation conquered another, the conquered were allowed to retain their language, from the barbarians to the conquering Roman Legions and up through the present.

 

Source(s):http://www.loc.gov/rr/hispanic/ghtreaty/ (Library of Congress has the actual bilingual document imaged here)

 

 

[Guest bennie2]

vigogirl again i say want a job? GO TO THE CORPORATE OFFICE. call & ask for an interview. dont bother people who are not in human services. do i have to teach you who the world works? ok. jrod, a treaty is fine from 150 yrs ago. they are free to speak their own language. mexicans/cent americans can continue cleaning houses in the US. they can stay in the neighborhood & work in the family grocery store. there is NOT anything in the treaty that says we have to accomodate them. that came later for completely different reasons. what does that have to do w/telmex? so a lady gets nuts in telmex. thats the way some of us roll. bad day is a bad day. 

[Al Berca]

11 hours ago, Xena said:

Carcamal, if it is that important to you, find the evidence that disproves it. If you can't or don't want to put in the effort then let it go. You can go on believing or not believing anything you want -- and so can Fred. Clearly, the issue is not as important to him as it is to you, so why expect him to do your homework for you?

Curious as to how  one proves the non existence of something. Is it not the responsibility of the person who states that something is fact, to be able to show that it is, indeed, fact?

That is all Carcamal is asking. This began with Carcamal responding to RV's statement. How and why you and Fred decided to chime in with your two cents worth is the question. Although, unlike yourself, Fred did try to be helpful.

 

[virgogirl]

Nastiness, no kidding. Whew

[Kiko]

Near the end of the month and the meds are running low,,,,,

 

[pedro malo]

On 8/25/2016 at 6:01 PM, Hud said:

Some of us that lived NOB think that just because our country provides all the services free(translators, applications, etc.) to anyone that could not speak English, that it would be reciprocal in most other countries. Some though, continue to exclaim: "if you don't learn English and don't make a sincere effort to fit in with our way of life, then go home". Mexico makes no apology for having everything transacted in its predominant language. I like that. Other countries should do as the Mexicans do more often in some things.They take pride in their predominate language, and rightly so. This is their country, and they built it.  If it's not the way you like it, then fit in or go home.

I agree.  I would only add that not all of the USA provides bilingual services.  Maybe along the border with Mexico in Her former territories with large Mexican populations, bilingual services are provided but up here in the former Oregon Territory (Washington State), I've not seen it.  I live in a town which is larger that Ajijic with a sizeable Mexican community and bilingual services do not exist in any language.  If you don't speak English here, too bad.  Fortunately, the Mexicans here speak good English.  The exception to this might be Seattle but I don't know that for sure.

[RVGRINGO]

If one is truly interested, there are history sites which will confirm what was included in the Treaty of Guadalupe de HIdalgo. One such quote pops up easily with a Google search:

The treaty explicitly guaranteed Mexican Americans "the right to their property, language, and culture.“ 

Why all the fuss about being guests, or not guests?   How about just “Foreign Immigrants?  The more polite term is , “estranjeros“; strangers, and some of us are truly very, very strange.

[Guest bennie2]

in a global world no one is a stranger. it is oneword one people. forgot to mention: that only applies to the very rich or the very poor. if you are caught in the middle, tough luck. there is no hospital in oregon which does not speak spanish. many of the employees are proberly mexican. my complaint about telmex is that the airconditioner is too high. 

[CHILLIN]

Ms Chillin has worked with seniors for almost 40 years, many of them suffering from Alzheimers and Dementia - she says this lady is showing classic signs.

Also don't forget, that bilingual employees get an extra digit on their wage packet, and are in demand all over Mexico. Employers don't want to pay that extra digit unless they have to. I was reading on Yahoo (I know, I know) that the most lucrative crime in the U.S.A. is employer theft - not employee theft. The companies shorting the workers on wages, tax deductions, etc. This involves billions of dollars

[carcamal]

2 hours ago, RVGRINGO said:

If one is truly interested, there are history sites which will confirm what was included in the Treaty of Guadalupe de HIdalgo. One such quote pops up easily with a Google search:

The treaty explicitly guaranteed Mexican Americans "the right to their property, language, and culture.“ 

Why all the fuss about being guests, or not guests?   How about just “Foreign Immigrants?  The more polite term is , “estranjeros“; strangers, and some of us are truly very, very strange.

Again I ask you, since you have raised the subject twice, to point out to me where in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo there is any explicit or implied duty of the U. S. government to guarantee "the right to their language and culture", or where the words "language" or "culture" even appear (link attached, you can use the search function in your attempt to find the words). The best the other poster can do is claim that somehow it exists in the penumbra of the right of citizens to "exercise their liberty". 

http://www.emersonkent.com/historic_documents/treaty_of_guadalupe_hidalgo_1848_transcript.htm

[RVGRINGO]

Reading 101?   I can no longer read much, due to multiple retinal colapses & my driving license is history.  However, I have read the whole thing in the past, and it is there.  If memory serves, it simply refers to “culture“, which includes language, as you probably know......or maybe not.

Your aggressive tendencies are showing, by the way.  Others seem perfectly able to understand the meaning of what is written.   

[moderator-2]

OK waaay off topic and getting a little personal.  Closed.