Major Problems in Next State

[lakeside7]

I guess in many ways the violence and mayhem that happen in other MX states reflect the similar that happen in different states in the USA ...if you are not in that area, city or town then everything is rosy and paradise (Lakeside)..but for the owners of the vehicles etc it is hell trying to carry out business.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/protesting-students-burn-buses-delivery-truck/?utm_source=Mexico+News+Daily&utm_campaign=453b6102fd-July+19&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_f1536a3787-453b6102fd-347994033

[bmh]

There was fighting in Chiapas yesterday at the entrance of San Cristobal and the newly restaured ex palacio municipal was ransacked, fire was set, and so on.. not a good place o be right now..

[Sandrita]

Are you in Chiapas now?

[bmh]

No  I am leaving on Tuesday., My husband came down with dengue and I could not leave on Monday but I am going on this tuesday, I hope  I can get through, it got super nasty this week, my cleaning lady was scare of coming to my house..

[Mainecoons]

The U.S. wouldn't put up with this kind of criminality for a second.  Comparing what is going on in Oaxaca, Chiapas and now Michocan to anything that might happen in the U.S. is inaccurate to put it mildly.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/teachers-accused-of-stealing-200-vehicles/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/if-state-doesnt-act-the-people-will/

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/teachers-stop-trains-paralyze-shipping/

Thousands and thousands of people have lost their jobs because obviously the tourists aren't going to risk going to these areas.  Also, much of the coastal tourism on which the 5000 reported laid off coastal workers depend is blocked because most tourists go to the coast by car and these "teachers" and the outright criminal elements accompanying them have blocked key roads.

Let's be clear here, these "teachers" and their criminal buddies are making war on the people more than they are on the government.  This could get really ugly if the folks decide to clear their own roads.

bmh the board was down for a couple days, please come back and let us know you all were able to get out OK.

[More Liana]

Mainecoons says, "Let's be clear here, these "teachers" and their criminal buddies are making war on the people more than they are on the government.  This could get really ugly if the folks decide to clear their own roads."

Let's be clear here: there are pros and cons on both sides of the fence.  The CNTE (teachers' union) isn't innocent, but the government isn't innocent either.  It's important not to put the white hats on one side and the black hats on the other.  The issues are complex and deep-rooted and difficult to understand.  Be careful about ascribing blame.

[Mainecoons]

Do your homework.  People in Oaxaca are clear about this issue.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/feds-losing-against-cnte-law-breakers/

Quote

Coparmex president Gustavo de Hoyos Walther said that while the CNTE blocks airports, which he described as a federal crime, “the authorities carry on with a strategy of dialogue in which its voice is receding due to a lack of forcefulness and for providing no answers for society, which continues to be the big loser.”

De Hoyos allowed that he was in favor of dialogue but wondered how much more time would be required by those involved in it to resolve the conflict which is leaving “irreversible damage to inhabitants, to businesses and to tourism in those states and to the security and peace of people’s daily lives.”

It is the responsibility of the Interior Secretariat to ensure the governability of the country yet “the criminal actions of the CNTE infringe upon governability,” de Hoyos said.

“We are issuing a clear call to the Interior Secretary to assume his responsibility and enforce the law.”

There is no excuse for the kind of criminality the CNTE and the criminals around them have unleashed on the people of Oaxaca and Chiapas.  If you have a gripe with the government you don't make war on the property and jobs of the people.  You make war on the government.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/teachers-accused-of-stealing-200-vehicles/

Our Mexican friends in Oaxaca explained this situation very bluntly.  These so-called teachers are largely not qualified for their jobs which they think they should have the right to buy and sell and not even bother to show up.

Quote

A key element in the government’s education reforms has been teacher evaluation. It has been a common practice for years in states such as Guerrero and Oaxaca for teachers to sell their positions or pass them on to family members with no regard for the training, or lack thereof, of those who purchase the posts.

Sorry, but the blackest hats by far belong to these "teacher" hooligans who have injured, in some cases mortally, the lives of the people there.  While they are at it, they've sprayed graffiti all over historic buildings, trashed the center of Oaxaca and caused a number of business to fold.

Fortunately, our artisan friends there have a big national and international following and they have been able to keep going even though their local gallery is doing very little business.  When they were here a few weeks ago they described how many of their friends are not so lucky.

 

 

[pedro malo]

4 hours ago, Mainecoons said:

Do your homework.  People in Oaxaca are clear about this issue.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/feds-losing-against-cnte-law-breakers/

There is no excuse for the kind of criminality the CNTE and the criminals around them have unleashed on the people of Oaxaca and Chiapas.  If you have a gripe with the government you don't make war on the property and jobs of the people.  You make war on the government.

http://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/teachers-accused-of-stealing-200-vehicles/

Our Mexican friends in Oaxaca explained this situation very bluntly.  These so-called teachers are largely not qualified for their jobs which they think they should have the right to buy and sell and not even bother to show up.

Sorry, but the blackest hats by far belong to these "teacher" hooligans who have injured, in some cases mortally, the lives of the people there.  While they are at it, they've sprayed graffiti all over historic buildings, trashed the center of Oaxaca and caused a number of business to fold.

Fortunately, our artisan friends there have a big national and international following and they have been able to keep going even though their local gallery is doing very little business.  When they were here a few weeks ago they described how many of their friends are not so lucky.

 

 

I have to "Second" Maincoons on this issue.  I too fell for the "poor student teacher" "evil government" propaganda position until my Mexican wife tuned me up which has been supported by many informed, educated Mexicans I've met since then.

My wife found herself on one of these hijacked buses traveling between Zihuatanejo and Acapulco some years back.  She told me the "student teachers" showed no regard for the passengers, holding them hostage and re-routed the bus to some location near Chilpancingo where they blocked a highway and set the bus on fire, leaving the passengers stranded along the highway to figure out how to make it to their destinations.  When she heard about the killings in Iguala, she had little sympathy for the student teachers because of her personal experience of them.  She says they behave no better than bandidos.

She also has personal experience within her family of these "teachers".  One in particular who has been in the teachers union for many years never goes to work and collects his teacher's salary sitting at home drinking all day.  This abuse is one of the many culturally entrenched forms of corruption that festered under 70 years of PRI rule over Mexico.  The fact that the government is trying to reform it seems like a positive move IMO.

 

[El Cartero]

Maincoon when you're right you're right!

[Hud]

"There is no excuse for the kind of criminality the CNTE and the criminals around them have unleashed on the people of Oaxaca and Chiapas.  If you have a gripe with the government you don't make war on the property and jobs of the people.  You make war on the government. "

Agree 100%. Wish we could teach that concept to those people NOB who organize those "marches from Hell".

[AlanMexicali]

16 hours ago, pedro malo said:

I have to "Second" Maincoons on this issue.  I too fell for the "poor student teacher" "evil government" propaganda position until my Mexican wife tuned me up which has been supported by many informed, educated Mexicans I've met since then.

The fact that the government is trying to reform it seems like a positive move IMO.

 

I do not agree that many informed educated Mexicans ever bought into the propaganda or ever supported any of the teachers unions or thought the latest Mexican governments are evil. I feel that many of the uneducated uniformed Mexicans did and still do. It might be your wording is reflecting the exact opposite to what it reads as. In that case I agree.

[ComputerGuy]

Alan, that is one post that would benefit from a spell check... "Uniformed"

 

[AlanMexicali]

20 minutes ago, ComputerGuy said:

Alan, that is one post that would benefit from a spell check...

 

I fixed it. Our spell check is on the Spanish setting so it doesn´t help here.

[pedro malo]

4 hours ago, AlanMexicali said:

I do not agree that many informed educated Mexicans ever bought into the propaganda or ever supported any of the teachers unions or thought the latest Mexican governments are evil. I feel that many of the uneducated uniformed Mexicans did and still do. It might be your wording is reflecting the exact opposite to what it reads as. In that case I agree.

Alan, you misread or I did not write it clearly.

I meant to express that the tune up my wife gave me on the reality of the situation is supported and confirmed by informed and educated Mexicans I've discussed this with.  That the position of the student teachers being the sole victim is NOT the truth and that the propaganda making them the "victim" and the government the "villian" was debunked by my wife and these other informed people.

So I think we agree indeed unless I'm misunderstanding your post. 

[AlanMexicali]

27 minutes ago, pedro malo said:

Alan, you misread or I did not write it clearly.

I meant to express that the tune up my wife gave me on the reality of the situation is supported and confirmed by informed and educated Mexicans I've discussed this with.  That the position of the student teachers being the sole victim is NOT the truth and that the propaganda making them the "victim" and the government the "villian" was debunked by my wife and these other informed people.

So I think we agree indeed unless I'm misunderstanding your post. 

You are not misunderstanding my post. We agree and so do our friends and my wife´s family here in Mexico.  Mainecoons pretty well summarized why the teachers are doing it.

[pedro malo]

Yes, we can always count on Mainecoons to do that so comprehensively.

[luvsdawgs]

Mainecoons is absolutely correct on this, stealing trucks, keeping people from their livelihood, preventing ambulance with critically ill people from passing, etc. etc. These are not the hoodlums I would want teaching my children. They are criminals pure and simple and should be fired as they are not at work. Additionally, if they are good at what they do they have nothing to fear from a test or being given an evaluation. The children suffer from lack of education and a good education should be the #1 issue here, not people's feelings, etc.

[pedro malo]

14 minutes ago, luvsdawgs said:

Mainecoons is absolutely correct on this, stealing trucks, keeping people from their livelihood, preventing ambulance with critically ill people from passing, etc. etc. These are not the hoodlums I would want teaching my children. They are criminals pure and simple and should be fired as they are not at work. Additionally, if they are good at what they do they have nothing to fear from a test or being given an evaluation. The children suffer from lack of education and a good education should be the #1 issue here, not people's feelings, etc.

And to think these people take positions in Mexico's public school system, and I believe the worst and most ignorant of them, at the entry level where the students are the most vulnerable and suggestible.  My granddaughter started public school in Zihuatanejo.  Soon after she started having problems with comprehension of the materials.  The "teacher" would not allow her to eat her lunch or have recess as punishment!  My granddaughter was 6 years old at the time.  What an incredible lack of psychological understanding of developing young minds and direct abuse of children.  I can tolerate punishment for bad behavior but for not understanding something?  When I heard this, I had the urge to find the stupid b**** and rip her throat out!  Instead we took here out of public school and placed her in a private catholic school.  She's 9 now and thriving!

[Mainecoons]

We have the two middle children of our artisan friends from Oaxaca here for English immersion.  Their father related to me the story of the local public "school" where the English "teacher" who bought his job speaks absolutely no English at all and can't teach it.

Our friends are lucky.  They work like dogs and sacrifice for their kids who will all be attending private schools.  Think of all the kids who have to settle for these schools and "teachers."  What chance do they have for a decent education?

That is really sad IMO.  

[pedro malo]

14 minutes ago, Mainecoons said:

We have the two middle children of our artisan friends from Oaxaca here for English immersion.  Their father related to me the story of the local public "school" where the English "teacher" who bought his job speaks absolutely no English at all and can't teach it.

Our friends are lucky.  They work like dogs and sacrifice for their kids who will all be attending private schools.  Think of all the kids who have to settle for these schools and "teachers."  What chance do they have for a decent education?

That is really sad IMO.  

Exactly.  I'm certain this was the case with my granddaughter as well.  The "teacher's" incompetence in presenting the materials for which then my granddaughter was being punished for not understanding.

My wife's family is loaded with these "student teachers".  I never understood how they could be training as teachers when most of them have never finishing secondary school, let alone having any advanced education.  Most of them are sent off to rural ranchos to "teach" the poor village children as their first assignments.  Took me awhile to put all the pieces together.  Thanks again Mainecoons for your comprehensive explanation of this situation and contributions to this board in general.

 

[slainte39]

Quote

 

"There are pros and cons on  both sides of the issue"

Having been involved in the education of children and grandchildren over the years, I can not see where there is any "pros" for the teachers' union.

Mainecoons is exactly correct in my personal view....... and their (the union) actions are contemptible.

[alex45920]

On 7/29/2016 at 4:35 PM, luvsdawgs said:

Additionally, if they are good at what they do they have nothing to fear from a test or being given an evaluation. The children suffer from lack of education and a good education should be the #1 issue here, not people's feelings, etc.

This is the crux of the problem. The teachers stink at what they do. As pointed out earlier in this thread, many of them bought or inherited their teaching jobs...they did not have to meet any other requirements. These teachers know they will fail the evaluation tests, losing their jobs and benefits. Rather than making an effort to educate themselves so they can pass the tests, they chose to fight the government. Most, if not all, of my well-educated and otherwise intelligent Mexican friends support the teachers and fault EPN, who is making an honest effort to fix this problem. The evaluation process seems to be proceeding well except for these three or four states. The real losers here are the children of Mexico, especially in the rural areas, who get a piss-poor education.

[Yes, it's the same Alex. When the board was reformatted, my screen name was changed to alex45920...and I can't figure out to change it back.]

 

[Hud]

1 hour ago, alex45920 said:

This is the crux of the problem. The teachers stink at what they do. As pointed out earlier in this thread, many of them bought or inherited their teaching jobs...they did not have to meet any other requirements. These teachers know they will fail the evaluation tests, losing their jobs and benefits. Rather than making an effort to educate themselves so they can pass the tests, they chose to fight the government. Most, if not all, of my well-educated and otherwise intelligent Mexican friends support the teachers and fault EPN, who is making an honest effort to fix this problem. The evaluation process seems to be proceeding well except for these three or four states. The real losers here are the children of Mexico, especially in the rural areas, who get a piss-poor education.

[Yes, it's the same Alex. When the board was reformatted, my screen name was changed to alex45920...and I can't figure out to change it back.]

 

 These "poorer" Mexican children have been losers forever in their education. I fail to see how intelligent and well-educated Mexicans could EVER support these "teachers". Is that because these wealthier Mexicans want to keep the education level of the poorer Mexicans at such a low level that they can continue forever to use and abuse them ? Intelligent people know that there is POWER in  education.

[alex45920]

Hud, you are reading things into my comments that just aren't there. You  seem to be quoting me as saying something about "poorer" Mexican children. I actually said that Mexican children are getting a piss-poor education. When it comes to my friends, they are appalled by the violence and the death toll. They hold EPN responsible for letting the situation escalate that far. In that regard, they certainly support the teachers. I hope this clarifies my comments.

[Hud]

7 hours ago, alex45920 said:

Hud, you are reading things into my comments that just aren't there. You  seem to be quoting me as saying something about "poorer" Mexican children. I actually said that Mexican children are getting a piss-poor education. When it comes to my friends, they are appalled by the violence and the death toll. They hold EPN responsible for letting the situation escalate that far. In that regard, they certainly support the teachers. I hope this clarifies my comments.

I thought this thread was about the Public educational system in Mexico, attended basically by the children of the poorer families in Mexico, no? Those families that have money send their children to private schools and those teachers are not doing the violence, no? I still do not see how your "friends"
 can support those who participate in the violence and condone the violence, no matter what. I agree that those who participate in the violence should be locked up for a long time, pay restitution, etc., and the EPN government needs to get that act together. But, to support the violence just because the government does not put them in prison does not seem like something intelligent people would support. But, again, Mexico is what it is.